Daily driver tires: summer or all-season? |
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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Posted: March/09/14 at 7:49am |
So, after having two sets of pretty fantastic summer tires (Conti DW, Mich Pilot SS) I'm faced with the decision of whether I go with another set of summers, or try and get a little more mileage with a UHPAS tire.
The DWs had about 8K on them before I took them off (could have gotten another 2K out of them probably), and the SS's have about 10K on them with another 2K left, maaaybe. But they tread is getting down to where they don't do so well in standing water anymore (the whole car sliding sideways about a foot on the freeway is not my idea of a thrill ride), and they're loud. So, my question is, do most of you run all-season or summer tires year round on your daily driver MINI Cooper? Thank you, in advance. |
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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Dave's not here
PSMINI Skilled Member PSMINI Member Joined: May/09/10 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 360 |
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Jason, you've found the trade-off for the summer tires, better handling/performance but much less on the tire wear. Search for high performance all season radials and figure out which one you think will suit your desires. I have the Toyo 4's and am happy with them although I don't take my MINI out of the garage if the weather is crappy, it's my fun car ride. The Toyo's are a harder compound than the shaved RA 1's I raced on but they are just as predictable in bad weather conditions especially with the full tread depth. That's why I went with the Toyo's because I knew how they would handle the rain. And they do just fine in the dry too even after taking the race set-up out of the alignment. My two cents...
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5 race wins, 2 in the rain. 2nd in ICSCC G Production Championship 2005 and 2006. Now I'm just gonna drive the MINI.
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CINIMIN
MINI Motorer Joined: August/27/05 Location: Everett WA Status: Offline Points: 4676 |
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I think the performance of all season tires has improved almost to the level of summer tires of just a few years ago. Much better traction at lower temperatures (less than 40*F) from all seasons is one of the biggest advantages in our climate. My $.02 worth...
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Jack -
<font color=RED>CINIMIN [/COLOR] 2006 CR/W MCS - 6spd - LSD -15% Pulley - Dinan CAI ASA JH6's Koni FSD's 22mm Bar Have you hugged a curve today? |
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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CINIMIN, I think so too. I really like the Hankook S1 Noble2's I have on the Benz, but on that car they break loose a little too easily in wet conditions. I might wait a bit, see how the new Direzza dz102 fares in reviews, it's a summer tire, but has a 460!!! treadwear rating.
Otherwise, UHPAS it is. Thank you for your in put as well Dave, it's a really tough decision!
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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The saying goes something like:
A/S - Good to not so good performance in all seasons and great performance in none. Summer - Great to excellent performance in summer and poor performance below X degrees where X on my RE11s is about 45 degrees. I've had my RE11s for about 4 or 5 seasons and love them. I even had them in a hail storm once with no problem. Their wet performance is actually better than the DWSs I use in winter as long as the weather is warm (mid-upper 50's). I highly recommend the RE11s. In fact, I'm thinking of stepping up a size and going to the RE11As which is the upgrade from the RE11. The cross-over point on the RE11s in my experience is right about 45 degrees. When it gets that cold you really feel the tire stiffen and it is losing grip. I've been spirited at 40 degrees and a little colder and it wasn't unpredictable or scary but it certainly felt like the tire was unhappy with itself. Felt like a cheap set of stock A/S run flats actually. When I replace the tires on the GP I will probably go with the Direzza ZII. But I try not to take the GP out in bad weather. |
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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Yeah, A/S is generally just an "ok" tire in everything. Now that I'm back in Seattle I plan on driving with the club a bit more, but he's also my DD so I want something that's livable. I don't need a max summer tire, as I don't really track him, so I'm thinking the DZ102's might be a good choice. Plus, they're cheap.
And hopefully by the time next winter comes around, I'll have a place where I can store a set of winter tires, or at least rent a garage to store the Benz and tires in. I guess I'll give the Dunlops a spin (ha, see what I did there?).
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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bnr32jason
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: January/08/14 Location: Bellevue, WA Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I'm really quite surprised you only got 8-10k from a set of DW's. Was there a fair amount of AutoX or track days mixed in?
I had DW's on my Civic and I was at almost 17k when I changed them, and even then I could have got another couple thousand miles out of them. That was over two years with three or four AutoX days as well.
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Pawsome
MINI Motorer MINI Motorer Joined: September/09/07 Status: Offline Points: 599 |
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What Jason said. I am up to around 11-12k miles on my DWS (rotated at 8k) and I am going to squeeze at least another 7-8K miles out of them before I toss them.
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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There was a Maryhill event, maybe some driver skills days but never a full on auto-x event. I have camber plates in the front, but also rotated every to every other oil change. I also drive my car like I'm at the track most of the time, so that probably also contributes.
Pawsome, the DWS is a completely different tire from the DW, much higher UTQG rating as it's an all-season, so that's not really a fair comparison to the DW.
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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I have run with both A/S tires and Summer Performance tires and I find the Springtime is the most challenging because of big weather changes or altitude changes causing temperature swings that put summer tires into a not so good choice.
Cold air, hitting a patch/stream of water across a roadway, spirited driving and you could go sideways. Hurricane Ridge is a perfect example of where something like that can happen, or on Mt. Rainier. I now use A/S and dedicated winter tires/wheels. |
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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racingbmwm3
MINI Motorer Joined: January/28/13 Location: Port Townsend Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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I made a quick spreadsheet based on tire replacement history of my car. The fronts wear about twice as fast as the rear. Over 100k miles, I'll spend less money if I never rotate the tires. But, that is going to be specific to my driving style and my car. On my E30, rotating does help me get more miles out of the tires. I recommend tracking the tread depth (outside/middle/inside) of your tires in order to determine what works best for you.
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'05 Cooper, BRG, Aerokit, Sport Package, 135k
'89 325iX, Diamondblack, 270k |
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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racingbmwm3, can you clarify? You mean you spend less money by not rotating and buying 2 new when the fronts wear out? Or am I completely mis-understanding your post?
MINI recommends rotating for this exact reason. The MINI is torture on the fronts and before they go completely bologna skin on you the recommendation is to move them to the back and get more tread upfront. I rotate by season. Not optimal tread depth once they need to be rotated but I get another season out of the tires once they are rotated. |
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Rob N
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: August/13/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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When I was running all seasons all of the time, I just rotated them when I changed the oil every 5,000.
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Rob, Vickie and Alice
COOPR-S The question is, "When you turn on your car does it return the favor?" |
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racingbmwm3
MINI Motorer Joined: January/28/13 Location: Port Townsend Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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Now I have to remember which computer I left this spreadsheet on.
My RWD BMW's always wore more on the edges on the front (from cornering, not underinflation) and the rear tires always wore mainly in the center (properly inflated, not overinflated). Rotating made perfect sense on these cars as it would allow the entire tire to get evenly worn out because of complementary wear styles. I would always rotate every oil change, 3-5k. So, I seem to be getting fairly even wear across the entire tread on the front tires, I've never owned a FWD car before, so I'm assuming that is why. Based on the service history of my car, they always replaced just one pair of tires every 20-25k miles and 2 pairs of tires every 45-50k miles. When I bought the car, the front tires were almost dead and the rear tires still had more than 50% tread (after about 20k miles since the last records of a tire purchase). My assumption is that the tires were never rotated, no receipts indicating rotations and the condition of the tires as my evidence. So, I created a spreadsheet to determine the maximum ROI on tires (I'm an engineer/geek) based on different methods of rotation, and assuming even wear on all tires. Control Case: no rotation, front tires wear out at 25k, rear tires at 50k (these are best case scenarios). 1st case, rotate tires only when front tires wear out, putting new tires on rear (best tread generally should be on rear). 2nd case, rotate tires every 10k 3rd case, rotate tires every 5k Again, assuming even wear front and rear, rotating the tires causes more tires to be consumed over a 100k cycle. The least amount of tires need to be purchased if you never rotate. This only works if the treadwear is even ACROSS the entire tread. If any uneven wear occurs, then you can extend the life of the tires IF the treadwear on the other axle is complementary. To determine if this would work for your car, you need to measure the tread depth across all 4 tires for at least half of the normal tire life without doing any rotations. And I would take measurements at least every 1000 miles to get enough data to create a trendline to be able to fairly accurately determine a maximum tire life per axle. This can then be used to populate a spreadsheet and determine the optimal rotation schedule for your car and driving style. I drove 27k miles last year, so it seemed worthwhile to plan this out for me. If you only drive a few k a year, probably doesn't matter much. Let me know if you want this spreadsheet. :) |
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'05 Cooper, BRG, Aerokit, Sport Package, 135k
'89 325iX, Diamondblack, 270k |
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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I'm going shopping for a tire depth gauge today, haha. Thinking of going all-season as I don't have room or money for a dedicated set of winter tires right now, and the Super Sports are getting down there.
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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racingbmwm3
MINI Motorer Joined: January/28/13 Location: Port Townsend Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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Just a warning that all seasons don't really work in the kind of snow we have here in the NW. You're ok using them though where the snow is drier/colder temps.
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'05 Cooper, BRG, Aerokit, Sport Package, 135k
'89 325iX, Diamondblack, 270k |
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