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johnf36 
PSMINI Expert Advisor 
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
 Posted: January/17/08 at 3:15am |
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Thanks Dave, did find that if I open the link in Google it translates most of the page whenit opens.
John
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer 
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/17/08 at 9:51am |
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Okay, so just for kicks I went out and bought a ball of yarn and have a buddy who will take pics for me whenever I can put this together.
Of course I'll post pics as soon as I have them as well! Tristan |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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CosmicTraveler
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: September/16/07 Location: Covington Status: Offline Points: 1485 |
Posted: January/17/08 at 1:24pm |
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We like dedication!
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 Take It Easy ... Buck
'06 MCS JCW CR/CR |
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/17/08 at 4:34pm |
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Cool, You my want to grab some pictures at some different speeds. The picture below from the night I drove home. I started with 3 inches of snow all over the car I only cleaned the window. I never got over 35 mph coming home. You can see it reall did not touch the roof. From the other time when I did this I got up to 60 and then you could start to see the pattern form on the roof(sorry no pic). Also you can see on the bonnet where the snow basically stayed
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/17/08 at 11:38pm |
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Thanks for reposting this pic again! Makes me think that the VG's should go right on the leading edge of the roof.
Tristan |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:12am |
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I have heard from someone that if you want to see where the air is flowing over your car/Mini that you should put Flower on the car.... So I did that on my way back from dropping Caileen off this morning. I drove for about 1 1/2 miles at 25-30mph, 4 miles at 65-70mph, and about 1 1/2 miles at 40mph
This was the result.     For the record, I did not place the flower evenly over the entire roof or any portion of the Mini, I tried my best by lightly shaking the container. As you can see in the OEM wing pic, that even at 70mph the air did not touch the wing   |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:15am |
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If anyone else who is reading this thread but has not said anything yet, please feel free to try this some time and post pictures, I'd love more testing!!!!!!!
The next time I try this, I'll make sure that I have my dig. w/ me so that I can take before and after pics. (for those who are willing to trying this, please take before and after pics) as it will help to provide more accurate data.  |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:17am |
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Another thought
I'd love to add VG's to the bonnet at the leading edge, at least we know that air is hitting that part of the Mini and we could break it up a little. |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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Sanderskog
MINI Motorer
Joined: October/08/04 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1960 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:28am |
The image in my head of you sprinking flour on your car (or your neighbors watching you do it) is priceless
 .Todd
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2012 VW Golf Pirate Edition... Aarrr! - JACK
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:30am |
 So then your going to try it next rightI just noticed in the pics that I should put a disclaimer in.... Some of that white stuff is frost. The flower is the patches of White..... So air never made contact w/ the roof so the flower "Patches" were still in tact at the end of the test. My biggest kick was the Wing though! My JCW Wing will be here on teh 22nd and so I can't wait to try this again w/ that Wing.. (ie. Putting Flower on it) Edited by YakiMini - January/18/08 at 1:33am |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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garumph
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: October/15/06 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 1083 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:33am |
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Looking at those pictures, I would think that VG's just above the windshield might break up the boundary layer enough to bring the rear wing into play. Does anyone know what the CD of a MINI? I wonder if we can determine if we are too much into the laminar flow range and are pushing much more air than necessary.
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Gordon
Clifford, '14 Countryman All4 S Hunka Burning Love, '12 Coupe S, Burnt Orange Flames, '05 MC Black |
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kenru
MINI Motorer
Joined: December/21/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:36am |
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Great experiment Tristen. Maybe you should put the VG's at the top of the windshield and then try the "flour-power" experiment again...
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One good turn deserves another...and another...
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:45am |
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We'll just have to see. Considering they do not cost very much I think we could end up playing w/ the VG's a bunch this summer.
Hi ho, Hi ho, it's off to work I go! TTYLater! |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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garumph
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: October/15/06 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 1083 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 1:51am |
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I was just going to pop out and try to calculate the Reynolds number on the MINI and realized that my fluid dynamics is very rusty. 20 years ago I could have whipped those numbers out in a few minutes.
 It looks like we have a laminar flow separation starting at the front of the roof line. There probably is a large boundary layer a foot or so thick by the time the air gets to the spoiler making it worthless. Another test would be to do the flour power test and make runs at different speeds. As the flow speed increases the Reynolds number increases and we should see turbulent flow and the flow should reconnect to the roof and clean portions of the roof. So Tristan, If you could take some runs at 10mph increments up to say 160 we should be able to get a better picture.  |
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Gordon
Clifford, '14 Countryman All4 S Hunka Burning Love, '12 Coupe S, Burnt Orange Flames, '05 MC Black |
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 2:22am |
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Gordon the number I keep seeing id .37 for the CD. I beleive aroun 85 it reconnects that what I had to do with the snow to get a horseshoe.
Way to go Tristan, What did you think watching the flour move off the Bonnet? How many sets did you get?
BTW here is what Vortekz has on the page.
Can Wings be placed differently and still achieve same effects? Yes there are varying ways to place the Vortekz™ Generators all over your vehicle and still achieve improved airflow as our Delta Wings were designed to help anywhere there is air flow separation. John Edited by johnf36 - January/18/08 at 2:25am |
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 2:46am |
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Here is a interesting page with some automotive Cds and info
Realy this whole site has good info.
John Edited by johnf36 - January/18/08 at 2:48am |
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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garumph
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: October/15/06 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 1083 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:05am |
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If the flow reconnects at 85 then we aren't too far off at 60. Vortex generators at the top of the windshield should trip up the airflow and reduce the boundary layer.
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Gordon
Clifford, '14 Countryman All4 S Hunka Burning Love, '12 Coupe S, Burnt Orange Flames, '05 MC Black |
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:21am |
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I found a 331 course at Union College with Professor Anderson and they did the Mini in 06. Now to try and get there results.
Well I will try am email and see if I can get some where.
John
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:27am |
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John, that is AWESOME!!!
When getting in my MCS on my way to work I gave the roof a quick look over and found that there was a little bit of air movement on the flower on the roof, but it was very minimal! I'll take pics of it tonight. (hopefully it will still be there tonight!) |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:29am |
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Okay, so they say that you can put the VG's all over the car to correct some of the air..... My question is, at what degree of angle would you want to install it? 0% or 15%?
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:42am |
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Okay the Email is off, fingers crossed
My little understanding of Vg's is they perform best at 15 degrees.
John
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:48am |
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Got yah! You are the master of VG's Lol..... :-)
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:49am |
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Here is something interesting with the new Mini's John
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:51am |
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I'll try to read thru this tonight! The info looks to be really good!
Tristan
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 3:53am |
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Okay, I will have to head of to work in about an 2 hours.
John
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 4:00am |
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Need to look at the c pillar on the new Mini's
 You can see the foils/spoilers/damns what ever you want to call it. This has drouped the CD from .35 to .33
John Edited by johnf36 - January/18/08 at 4:02am |
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 4:07am |
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"Both the Mini Cooper and the Mini Cooper S have vertical flow of air
borders on the C-pillars and individual spoilers at the rear end of the
roof raise the grade of aerodynamics to an even higher criterion than
before. In add-on, 0.33 is the current drag coefficient of the Mini
Cooper."
I pulled this from the Journal Article |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 4:09am |
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That is good to know! I've been thinking. It would be hard to install canards on the front bumper since it's so compact but if you could install them at the C-Pillars they could really change things up!!!!
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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YakiMini
MINI Motorer
Joined: November/08/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3531 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 4:10am |
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So adding our VG's at 15degrees will help more than the NEW OEM Spoilers on the C-Pillars!
i'M Going to have to buy more in the near future. Cuz my MCS is going to look like it's got black zits all over it 
Edited by YakiMini - January/18/08 at 4:12am |
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MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: January/18/08 at 4:30am |
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That is what I am guessing too.
I got 2 sets, one black for the pillars and one primed so I could color match.
John
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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YakiMini wrote: