Puget Sound MINI Motoring Club Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussions > MINI Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - New Transmission at 30K?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

New Transmission at 30K?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
firehawk618 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer
Avatar
PSMINI Nonmember

Joined: January/18/11
Location: Marysville
Status: Offline
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firehawk618 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Transmission at 30K?
    Posted: May/27/11 at 11:55am
Way to resurrect a dead thread!  lol good info on tires here though.

*SOLD* 05MCS, added too much to list. 193k miles
Back to Top
onramp View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Member

Joined: November/19/06
Location: Renton, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onramp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 9:45pm
Jo's car had bad CV joints.  I know what bad CV joints sound like.  Same noise on a Corvette, Triumph, Porsche, some military vehicles.  I knew that Jo's Mini had a bad CV joint.  But nope - tires.

Pat
2006 Hyper Blue JCW
Back to Top
KnottyMan View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer
Avatar

Joined: March/29/06
Location: Freeland
Status: Offline
Points: 182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnottyMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 9:39pm
Had GY F1's, Discount Tire comp'd a switch to GY GT's since the F1s were discontinued but it actually turned out to be wheel bearings (mostly front left) for me.  No tranny issues.  Nice and chunky engagement.  Switched to RedLine MTL @ 60k
Back to Top
Hapa Haole View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer)

Joined: October/22/06
Location: Graham-Kapowsin
Status: Offline
Points: 3256
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapa Haole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by johnf36 johnf36 wrote:

Someone else here had noise from the tires?

I had noisy tires, but I never thought it was the tranny... I thought it was the wheel bearings. It ended up being the tires like everyone suggested. We have such smart people here on the forum.
Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
Back to Top
johnf36 View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Member

Joined: August/30/07
Location: Ephrata, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 8612
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 8:07pm
Someone else here had noise from the tires?
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

Back to Top
Hapa Haole View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer)

Joined: October/22/06
Location: Graham-Kapowsin
Status: Offline
Points: 3256
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapa Haole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 8:03pm
A follow up almost 2 years after my original post...

My August 2006 MCS/R53 ended up having transmission failure at 49,870-ish miles in September of 2009. Thankfully the transmission was covered under warranty at the time. However, the warranty will expire this coming September. I hope the replacement lasts much longer than the original because $7,000+ seems like a rip off for a rebuilt/replacement tranny.
Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
Back to Top
CORNERS View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Member

Joined: July/29/10
Location: Bothell, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 3733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CORNERS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 7:55pm
Quick diagnostic check -- Change the wheels and tires, see if the noise is still there or not. Many of us in the club would be happy to help you do this and provide you with a set of wheels/tires to quickly try out. 

Back to Top
ktrjones12 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: May/03/11
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktrjones12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/11 at 7:44pm
Quote Hi,
 
I took my car for a quick checkup because I was hearing a rubbery noise coming from the front left wheel. My car has 30K, so I was not worried about the noise. After an inspection at a local shop I was told that apparently the noise is comming from the transmission and that I need a new one. I was PO'd... I called Mini and as I started to explain the problem she asked...Is it a grinding noise? No....  Does the noise goes away as soon as you start going faster? Yes....  Do you have Goodyear Tires? Yes.... Are they low on thread?  Em... Yes....   And she tells me that most likely its not the transmission but my tires, as they tend to make that noise... What do you guys think about this? Could you recommend me a good place to get a second opinion? I do not want to make my current place sound bad as they have been very good before and I think several ppl on this forum go to them.
 
Thanks!
Sal.


Not heard of a complete replacement for an automatic needed by anyone that I recall. I know of a couple that had loose/missing torque converter bolts, that's about it. Sounds like a fluke to me but you can buy cheap transmission easily.
Back to Top
Hapa Haole View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer)

Joined: October/22/06
Location: Graham-Kapowsin
Status: Offline
Points: 3256
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapa Haole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/09 at 6:55am
Don't forget:  If you're a PSMINI member, you get a 10% discount on parts and accessories at NW MINI, and there's also discounts at a few shops. Wink
Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
Back to Top
thejones View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: July/27/09
Location: Seattle WA
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thejones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/09 at 5:44am
Thanks for the suggestions. Good point about the cost v. failure issue.

I have scheduled an appointment at NW Mini but that's 3 weeks out! Just going to get them to change the fluid. But it's a good idea to ask about a software upgrade.

I recently changed the battery as the old original one finally gave out. I guess 6 years isn't too bad.

In regards to working on the CVT, I have to yet to find anyone who will. They all say it's R&R only. That goes against my grain as a person who owns 2 aging Chevs and a '68 Galaxie but if a fluid change will keep the CVT functioning, that's fine with me.

So any recommendations about a shop who exudes a level of confidence about performing the fluid change? Fat City sounded good, but not cheap.

Cheers.
Back to Top
valvashon View Drop Down
PSMINI Admin
PSMINI Admin
Avatar

Joined: June/15/07
Location: West Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valvashon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/09 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by thejones thejones wrote:

G'day. Noticing the thread, I was hoping for more discussion about the actual CVT failures at 30K (although I'm glad the original poster resolved their issue affordably!).

I have as 03 MC with just over 33K on the clock. The wife put the car in gear last week and heard a grinding sound. She turned off the engine, fired it up again and the sound had disappeared but there was now an error code of "EP" after the next service indicator display cleared. The SES light remained on but cleared the following day. I do not have an OBD-II scan tool but will probably purchase one simply to pull data from the computer.

Reading horror stories about the 02/03 CVT transmissions going out after only 30K.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2003/09/10/TheCVTRevisited-AFullReview/#comment-63600

 I can get the fluid changed but according to Fat City, they cannot do an internal inspection as the unit is sealed. So is my only option to drive the thing until it dies? Any thoughts on it being an electronic rather than mechanical issue?

Thanks!



Just to be clear, I do not have the CVT in my car, but have been doing a lot of CVT research as my wife is looking around for a Silk Green 02/03 with a CVT.  I can't point to any sources or links, but here is what I remember reading:

1) CVT's supposedly do not fail any more than any other transmission.  More is heard about the failures as it turns into a 7,000 to 8,000 dollar repair.

2) Many CVT owners swear on changing their CVT fluid (a special fluid of some type) every 25,000 miles.  I do not recall anybody who changed their fluid regularly that also had a failure that could be considered premature.

3) There are lots of high mileage CVT's out there.  I think one of the White Roof Radio guys has almost 200k on his '02 with a CVT.

4) CVT's require a plenty of electricity to operate properly.  I have heard of CVT's that supposedly failed, but were just the result of a weak battery.

5) MINI CVT's also can benefit from a software reset or upgrade.  We found a Silk Green in Pennsylvania in April that had a price too good to be true; an inspection revealed a "bad" CVT.  In late May this car shows up for sale in Cincinnati with 100 more miles on it!  A call to the used car dealer revealed that it had been "reprogrammed" by the local BMW dealer.  As far as we know, it was purchased by somebody and they are now happily motoring.

I can't explain the grinding noise your wife heard.  I would, however, get it to the dealer and have them do a fluid change (supposedly it is a lifetime fluid, but change it anyway) and a software reset.  If NW MINI just wants to replace the CVT, keep looking for a shop that can work on it.  Anybody know of another place that can work on a MINI CVT?

Also, as you have an '03 it could be a battery issue.  Having that load tested would be a good idea also.

Val

Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/09 at 4:14am
I actually do not know the original purchase date, I only know the manufacture date which is Oct 04. I did replaced the tires.. I put some Potenza tires on it and now the noise is gone... but on a talk with my mechanic he said he could still hear something wrong with the transmission... BTW a sample of transmission fluid came fine.
Back to Top
Minihaha View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer
Avatar
PSMINI Nonmember

Joined: December/26/06
Location: Fircrest
Status: Offline
Points: 430
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minihaha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/09 at 3:44am
Sorry, I didn`t realize that your car is an 05. I believe that you are right about the 4 year limit. Was your car originally purchased Aug-Dec 05? You might have NW MINI look at it after checking to see if they would charge you, and then if it needs to be replaced whether it is still covered.
The axle was covered under warranty, so no charge.
I still bet that the noise was caused by tires.
Good luck.
Milt
`06 MCS Red/Blk,Mini Madness V2 Exhaust,MM Cold air intake,M-7 Strut brace,Alta 15% Pulley,19mm SB,JH6 17 inch wheels
Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/09 at 3:04am
But it is 50K or 4 Years right? I think I am out by years.. my car is an 05. How much was it to replace the axle?

Thanks!
Back to Top
Minihaha View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer
Avatar
PSMINI Nonmember

Joined: December/26/06
Location: Fircrest
Status: Offline
Points: 430
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minihaha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/09 at 12:47am
I just had another thought. Some months ago my MINI made a clicking sound when I shifted, eminating from the rt front. After some false starts, PS MINI replaced the axle, and voila, the noise disappeared.
Milt
`06 MCS Red/Blk,Mini Madness V2 Exhaust,MM Cold air intake,M-7 Strut brace,Alta 15% Pulley,19mm SB,JH6 17 inch wheels
Back to Top
Minihaha View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer
Avatar
PSMINI Nonmember

Joined: December/26/06
Location: Fircrest
Status: Offline
Points: 430
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minihaha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/09 at 12:41am
You say that your warranty is already up? Your parts warranty should cover your car thru 50,000 miles. The service warranty is 36,000. I totally agree w/Pat, replace your tires and enjoy. If there is a problem w/ your transmission, you have 20,000 miles to sort it out.
Milt
`06 MCS Red/Blk,Mini Madness V2 Exhaust,MM Cold air intake,M-7 Strut brace,Alta 15% Pulley,19mm SB,JH6 17 inch wheels
Back to Top
thejones View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: July/27/09
Location: Seattle WA
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thejones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/09 at 6:06am
Yes, in the Seattle area. Speaking to a chap at Fat City, he seen some signs of CVT failure but at much higher mileage (90K and up). Given the amount of talk about this on other forums (fora?) my assumption was that the failure was not that uncommon.

I did not hear the grinding sound myself (wife's car - she was starting it) but she is familiar with the sounds it does make and has a pretty good idea of the sounds is *shouldn't* make. Wink
What irked me is the fact that one can only drive it until it fails. No way to "pop the top" and see if anything is amiss. At the very least I could replace the fluid (for about $350) as a preventative measure but other than that, seeing the EP code on the display was the only other indicator of possible trouble ahead...



Edited by thejones - July/27/09 at 7:30am
Back to Top
Hapa Haole View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer)

Joined: October/22/06
Location: Graham-Kapowsin
Status: Offline
Points: 3256
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapa Haole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/09 at 5:43am
Hi "The Jones",
 
I haven't heard anything about the CVT going bad from any of our PS MINI members.  I have an AT but it is not the CVT, so I don't have any feedback for you personally.  Are you in the Puget Sound area?
 
Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
Back to Top
thejones View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: July/27/09
Location: Seattle WA
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thejones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/09 at 5:18am
G'day. Noticing the thread, I was hoping for more discussion about the actual CVT failures at 30K (although I'm glad the original poster resolved their issue affordably!).

I have as 03 MC with just over 33K on the clock. The wife put the car in gear last week and heard a grinding sound. She turned off the engine, fired it up again and the sound had disappeared but there was now an error code of "EP" after the next service indicator display cleared. The SES light remained on but cleared the following day. I do not have an OBD-II scan tool but will probably purchase one simply to pull data from the computer.

Reading horror stories about the 02/03 CVT transmissions going out after only 30K.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2003/09/10/TheCVTRevisited-AFullReview/#comment-63600

 I can get the fluid changed but according to Fat City, they cannot do an internal inspection as the unit is sealed. So is my only option to drive the thing until it dies? Any thoughts on it being an electronic rather than mechanical issue?

Thanks!

Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 6:05am
Originally posted by Rob N Rob N wrote:

Yes, it's kind of a snick rather than a click.  Has always been there.  I believe it is from the linkage itself. 
 
I don't recall every seeing much at all about tranny problems except for the first CVT's and most of that problem was with the main ECU programming rather than the transmission.
 
The tranny is a Getrag and I believe they have a very good rep.  If you don't quit worrying about this, I'm afraid you will trigger some quantum physics thing that will cause it to fail just because you are worrying about it. 
 
Sorry, I truly dont mean to annoy anyone with my OCD, and I KNOW it gets annoying  (Just ask my g/f and friends LOL)  And yes... deep inside I beleive that Schrödinger will laugh at me when my tranny fails because I inspected it Smile
 
 
THanks!!!
Back to Top
Rob N View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Member

Joined: August/13/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2020
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 5:56am
Yes, it's kind of a snick rather than a click.  Has always been there.  I believe it is from the linkage itself. 
 
I don't recall every seeing much at all about tranny problems except for the first CVT's and most of that problem was with the main ECU programming rather than the transmission.
 
The tranny is a Getrag and I believe they have a very good rep.  If you don't quit worrying about this, I'm afraid you will trigger some quantum physics thing that will cause it to fail just because you are worrying about it. 
Rob, Vickie and Alice

COOPR-S

The question is, "When you turn on your car does it return the favor?"
Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 5:47am
Hi Val,
 
Thanks for taking the time to check this and answer :-)
The click I hear does not come from inside the car on the gearbox, but from outside the car on the front..  does yours do that too?
 
Thanks!!
 
Back to Top
valvashon View Drop Down
PSMINI Admin
PSMINI Admin
Avatar

Joined: June/15/07
Location: West Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valvashon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 5:43am
I hear that click when I shift also.

Val

Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 4:24am
Thanks! :-)
Back to Top
Rob N View Drop Down
PSMINI Expert Advisor
PSMINI Expert Advisor
Avatar
PSMINI Member

Joined: August/13/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2020
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 4:22am
All seems normal to me.
Rob, Vickie and Alice

COOPR-S

The question is, "When you turn on your car does it return the favor?"
Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/24/09 at 1:56am
I took my car to a closed parking lot with lots of echo so I could hear the car better... Every time I shift I hear a very subtle "click".. it doesnt sound bad.. sounds like when you put the door on a lock.... Is that normal?
Another thing.. For example.. the Steering pump makes this buzzing noise that confuses ppl into thinking that there is a problem with it, but that is just the way it sounds... is there any other sound like that, that the mini does?

Thanks!
Sal.
Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/09 at 3:10am
Wow $75 I think is the cheapest oil change I've seen in the area :-D I like my current shop.. but to give me a diagnosis for a transmission just based on sounds.. I dont think they  checked the oil.... is just a letdown for me... I will give them a try.
 
Thanks!!!
Back to Top
valvashon View Drop Down
PSMINI Admin
PSMINI Admin
Avatar

Joined: June/15/07
Location: West Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 1170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valvashon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/09 at 2:28am

I had a great experience with Fat City when I needed my first oil change and couldn't get the drain plug loosened myself (I actually broke a socket and kind of f-upped my back).  They got me in the next day (!) and did an inspection and changed the oil all for about $75!

I'll definitely be going back next time there is something that needs doing that I can't do myself.

Bruce

Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/09 at 1:44am
Hi, I got FatCity recommended to take my Mini for a checkup.. is it a good place?
 
Thanks!
Sal.
Back to Top
chava007 View Drop Down
MINI Motorer
MINI Motorer


Joined: December/08/07
Status: Offline
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chava007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/09 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by onramp onramp wrote:

OK - I'm not done.  Sorry.

Who the heck is this local shop that told you the tranny is going?  OK, OK - maybe you shouldn't answer that question.  However, go to the shop and point them to this thread.  Make them know that their poorly researched comment makes you really wonder about their diagnostic ability.  If they think the transmission is going bad, they should take an oil sample and test it.

Sorry if I seem grumpy - but their comment seems to be at least irresponsible.  What if they replaced your tranny and you still had the same noise?

I should probably not post this but I am.


You do make a lot of sense... although my warranty is all ready up, that's why I worry so much Cry.. but yes.... If I start with tests and such I will never enjoy this car again... not with my high levels of OCD (locked.. unlocked... locked..) I also talked to an uncle that knows a bit about mechanics and he was also surprised they did not inspect the oil, he explained to me that there exit cap is magnetic so it traps some of the possible debris
and whatever is not magnetically attracted to it gets inspected under some magnification. 
I also told him that after a tire rotation the noise was 100% gone and that I have no problem shifting... and he said the same thing.. if it works it works.. enjoy it Big%20smile..

Sooo... thanks A LOT for the words of wisdom.. I hope I get over my OCD and start enjoying my mini again (and I really enjoy it WooHoo)... If anybody else has comments/suggestions/experiences/support group ... please share.


THanks!!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.082 seconds.