Hardtop Base or S for reliability/longevity?

We are looking at 2013 Hardtops. We test-drove both the base and the "S", and prefer the sportier performance, but have read a few reviews online that suggest there may be more issues down the road with the "S" (turbo) engine vs the base model. I am wondering what sort of experience folks have had with these models. At what sort of mileage would we be likely to have some engine issues, and is one model more prone to issues than the other? All input appreciated. 

What Marc said - with the additonal input that lots of people in the club have "Justas"  as in "Just a Cooper" and are very happy with the performance and have no problem keeping up with the "S" crowd on club drives.  We have a SCCA champion MINI Driver in the club and his ride as a non S Cooper and he gets a LOT of performance out of his Justa!  The club is a great mix of cars and owners - you will fit right in what ever kind of MINI you are driving -

We bought a '12 Hardtop Base (Cooper) due to reliability concerns with the S (turbo failures, carbon buildup caused by the direct fuel injection system, and other problems documented on North American Motoring) and already having an E46 BMW 3 series in the garage as the "fast" car.

SMOG wrote: The base is still Direct Injected but the engine is not cooked as hard as with the turbo.

Pretty sure the non-turbo Prince engine has port injection. See below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_engine

The naturally aspirated variant (EP6, EP6C^[6]) has conventional fuel injection and lost-foam cast heads. Its high 11:1 compression ratio creates an output of 120 PS (118 hp/88 kW) at 6000 rpm with a redline of 6500 rpm. Torque is 118 lb-ft (160 N·m) at 4250 rpm.^[7]

Reliability is probably better for the non-turbo, but unless you put the car on the track, it is probably just a few percent difference. 

It really depends on if you subscribe to the school of thought that less parts equals more reliability. There is no real data that shows the turbo is less reliable than the naturally aspirated version of the Prince engine. As others have pointed out, this engine combination came out in '07 and was refined (VANOS) in 2012. There really may simply not be enough data available to make a hard determination. But, it certainly has more parts and forcing hot exhaust through a system of tubes in order to spin a fan which in turn is responsible for compressing the air going into the combustion chamber and therefore increasing manifold pressure certainly has it's engineering challenges. The S has had more "issues" (cold start, a rare N18 ECU issue, high pressure fuel pump warranty extension, water pump recall, exhaust tip recall, etc.) but all of the "issues" I can recall were/are being taken care of under warranty by MINI. There has not been any catastrophic failures (yet) of the R56 (2007+ Cooper and S) like there was for the first generation (CVT transmission failure at ~100k miles comes immediately to mind).

I have no idea what engine the Cooper (non-S) is using. I know in 2011 MINI updated the "Prince" engine with some extra technology like VANOS. At that time the S went to the N18 engine. In 2013 the JCW's get an updated N18 engine. The Prince S engine has always been direct injected but the Cooper was port injected (to my surprise). I can't confirm if this changed in 2011 for the Cooper. Additionally, the VANOS system is different on the Cooper and the Cooper S. Trying to find any "performance" details on the Cooper is difficult which is sad. I know plenty of Cooper owners who drive as spirited as S owners. I even know a few Cooper owners who have aftermarket exhausts and other performance parts.

One thing to keep in mind is simply that MINI owners are some of the most vocal and well informed car consumers/owners I've ever witnessed. Because of this you are going to find out about every single mis-fire off the assembly line down to the day the car was produced. MINI is a great company and has stood (mostly) behind their product. MINIs are made in England which has never had the best of reliability records when it comes to cars. These are good, reliable, fun cars that come with an amazing network of new friends should you accept us ;) Reading a site like NAM may give you a different impression then that but honestly they are reliable. If you prefer the sportier S I'd buy it, heck, I'd get a JCW. But, if you want the better gas mileage and less parts under the bonnet go for the Cooper. Additionally, if you are buying an automatic go with the S. The extra low-end torque will be felt much more with this set-up. I'd only buy the Cooper with a manual. Either way: Welcome to the club.

Ya know I have tried to respond to this thread 4 times now.

When it comes to gen 2s it is very confusing, not as simple as the gen 1s. There has been so many changes to the R56 alone when it comes to understanding the whole thing unless you are an avid follower and some what obsessive when it comes to the current Mini. I would not listen to very many people because the topic is very confusing and even harder to explain.

The simple fact is that there has been timing chain issues with some models of the engine. There is a thermo sensor recall, there was the cooling pump board replacement. I can keep going on with this but I think it is important to understand that all of this is very live. And what I mean is it is a continuously evolving, as problems come up Mini keeps working at correcting the problems. Example: we have seen 5 piston changes in the N-14 alone. Just like the gen 1s we are coming to an end to the gen 2s and most of the bugs have been worked out.

Carbon build up its a real problem but not a new one and it stretches across the wide spectrum of the auto world. One reason Honda drug there feet so long. Keep in mind the Peugeot 308 shares this same engine and the turbo PCV line has been removed and capped which is one of the biggest contributes to this problem.

The "Justas" are a great entry level car with great mpg and no dog. The have the best maintenance record across the board with the exception of the CVT.

Bottom line is you need to get what you are comfortable with, but you will get more miles with less repair cost with a "Justas" then a Turbo Mini. It is just the nature of the beast.

Just my 2 cents.

John

Nope I missed that

MINI has been ordered!

Thanks!

What kind of tires? Someone must want them.

Jolly Rancher wrote: Thanks! I have been reading through threads in the various forums and one thing that popped up is folks being unhappy that their S and JCW models were delivered without the all-season tires they had ordered. (Apparently due to a tire speed rating issue.) That got my attention! Is this still happening?

Where are you reading this? I ask because I've never heard of it. The top speed of the Cooper is 126 and the top speed of the S is 139 (MINIUSA). The only way this could be happening is if they were using H rated All-Season tires. Which.. according to tire rack, Continental does not make in 205/45R17 (most popular S size/brand tire).

Personally, I would have refused delivery until MINI made it right. But, I used my "sport" tires in the ice and snow in Philadelpia and they were not terrible. Not fun, but not terrible. You can expect about 20-30,000 miles on the stock runflats. For most that's less than 2 years of driving and then you put on something much better than the harsh RFTs MINI keeps insisting on using. The best upgrade for you MINI is getting off the stock RFTs.    

FWIW my girlfriend's 2012 Cooper S was delivered with all-season tires.

Now, it could be a problem if you order the optional 18" wheels. I don't recall the tire size that go on the 18" rims but the Brembo brake kit requires the 18" rims on the JCW. Tire Rack shows no all-season for what it thinks the 18" tire size is.

What wheels did you order?

ipeverywhere wrote: Jolly Rancher wrote: Thanks! I have been reading through threads in the various forums and one thing that popped up is folks being unhappy that their S and JCW models were delivered without the all-season tires they had ordered. (Apparently due to a tire speed rating issue.) That got my attention! Is this still happening?  FWIW my girlfriend's 2012 Cooper S was delivered with all-season tires. Now, it could be a problem if you order the optional 18" wheels. I don't recall the tire size that go on the 18" rims but the Brembo brake kit requires the 18" rims on the JCW. Tire Rack shows no all-season for what it thinks the 18" tire size is. What wheels did you order?

My 2011 Cooper "S" with the JCW BBK came with 17"rims and Continental RF Summer tires.  Even though it listed wheels and tires that were acceptable to me that was NOT what I got.

Seattle Mini might have kept them for themselves to sell as an extra to someone.

When I had it back into the dealership for another issue later that same year they backed into a pole with it and had to replace things like bumper cover, and repaint things.

Watch them closely!  With an attorney in your speed dial...

FWIW, did you know there was a recall on the braking system where, in my case, the car would not start at times?  It seems to have been related to the brake system and a recall.  NW Mini caught it a couple of weeks ago during an annual service!  Nobody ever mailed me a notice about this issue.








Edited by SMOG - January/17/13 at 7:10pm

ipeverywhere wrote: Remember there are two different BBKs now.

??? Enlighten me.

Jolly Rancher wrote: We did not order special wheels, so we are getting whatever is stock for the 2013 Hardtop S. I think that's 16" Rib Spoke.

If you did not order the JCW BBK then you will probably get any number of 17" wheels, and possibly a 16" but I am not sure about that.  We got 16" wheels on our Cooper when we bought it at the dealer and it was not an option as far as I know since the car was sitting on their lot.