Auto Transmission Issue! |
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SS Mini
MINI Motorer Joined: March/27/08 Location: Bellevue, WA Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Posted: April/17/13 at 3:14pm |
I'm starting to experience a major transmission issue with our R52 MCS. Basically after the car is warmed up, the transmission won't upshift or downshift. In my online research, I found a lot of post in NAM and other forums about this same issue and the difficulties others are having or had.
Here's the link the best post about the problem. There is also a Class Action law suit. http://baronandbudd.com/areas-of-practice/class-actions/bmw-mini-cooper-lawsuit/ I wanted to check if anyone in the local area has experienced this problem and might have some suggestions. I'm getting really nervous as I do more research. Everything I read says that the only fix is to get a new transmission at about $7000 to $9000!!! I love these cars, but half the KBB price to replace a transmission that just hit 82k miles?!? Don't know if I love these cars that much! |
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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I believe that lawsuit is limited to the CVT transmission. I only know of one car that ever made it past 100,000 miles on that CVT transmission.
You have the Aisin 6 speed as the CVT was never used on any S model. I will read through the NAM thread and comment more later. Your research, with regard to cost, is accurate from my own research though. I assume you have symptoms only and no codes, no lights, etc? |
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SS Mini
MINI Motorer Joined: March/27/08 Location: Bellevue, WA Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Yea, saw the C/A was for the CVT only. But there is now talk about extending it to the Aisin transmission also. I'm going to contact the law firm and see what's going on these days as it was filed in 2011. (I think)
Yes, only symptoms and no warning lights yet. But definitively had the worst experience today on I 90 as the car would not up shift into 4th or down shift since I had to slow down so much to prevent the engine from going past the red line. Not a good thing at highway speeds. Sounds like it's a well known problem, and BMW/MINI is doing everything they can to avoid replacing or even fixing the problem. Any help, suggestions, shop recommendations, etc... would be very much appreciated!
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hip check
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: August/25/06 Location: Covington Status: Offline Points: 1259 |
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My CVT is still going strong at 150k (knock on wood)
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Mitch & Teri
<font color=BLUE>2006 Cooper Checkmate[/COLOR] <font color=RED>2013 JCW Countryman[/COLOR] |
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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OK, make that 2 people I know =) Good show hip check. |
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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I finally read that whole thread. I recently had a transmission issue on my '08 but it was different than that thread. My symptoms occurred while cold and basically went away after things warmed up. In the end I paid the dealer to correct the issue before things got worse.
From your symptoms it sound like you're at the point of needing to replace a handful of parts. :( |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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I don't have an A/T MINI but I have been researching about automatic transmissions out of curiousity lately, both how they work and typical failure scenarios and how to repair.
The most common failures are clutch plate wear, overheated torque converter and stuck valves. (Note: CVT transmissions do not have clutch plates) Stuck valves can cause these problems as well. In some cases, just replacing clutch plates and cleaning the valves is good enough. Just replacing the valves might not solve the problem if a stuck valve caused some other issue. Due to the complexity, each case can be a different failure modality. Automatic transmission repairs can be insanely complex or just a little tiny part that is stuck. In either case, it is usually worth replacing with a transmission that you know has been well maintained, or getting the transmission completely rebuilt. If someone wants help removing/reinstalling a transmission, I'd be happy to help. I can do it in around 9-10 hours. But unless you want to be a guinea pig, I don't think I can fix an automatic transmission...yet. Whatever the case, be sure to replace your transmission fluid regularly! It is at least as important as changing your motor oil! A well maintained transmission will last 2-3x as long as one with dirty oil!
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South Lake European
MINI Motorer Joined: April/23/12 Location: Renton Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Kurt brings up such a valid point here... maintenance is so critical.
I'm going to look into helping you guys out here but, to the best of our knowledge there are no parts for any of the CVT's...Mini isn't releasing anything!! We exclusively use TRC in Kent to do internal transmission repairs and they wont touch the because of the lack of parts/information etc. Feel free to contact me directly if you need specific help. Or better yet...call to get your gear box serviced BEFORE There is a problem! Have a great weekend everyone. Derek
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Derek Simonsen
Owner-- South Lake European 205 Rainier Ave S Renton, WA 98057 425-276-5668 www.southlakeeuropean.com http://www.facebook.com/SouthLakeEuropean |
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Remember that SS Mini has the same Aisin transmission as the current models. Any S, even if it is a first gen, has the Aisin transmission. MINI started sneaking them into the first-gen S's late '05. If it's a S model and it has an automatic, _it is not_ a CVT. No CVT ever went into any S. It was always the current generation Aisin that went into every single S first and second-gen.
It's rare combination to see a first-gen S with auto but I've run into a few. Edit: Sorry if this comes off as a rant but since the CVT had such a high rate of failure and now the "normal" Aisin auto is causing some issues for a few it's important to clearly identify what's sitting under the engine. Edited by ipeverywhere - April/19/13 at 12:44pm |
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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My cousins wife has an '06 S Checkmate with the auto. I drove it, it was actually a fun little car. If I'm ever at a place where I need an automatic, I'd totally consider one as it really didn't feel like that much of a compromise over the manual.
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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There are several automatic R53 out there. Brenda is one example.
The CVTs had high failure rates and on such a complex piece of machinery, the Aisin models may fail from time to time as well. You can improve your luck by frequently replacing the fluid. A transmission cooler may help as well especially if you are towing something or drive the car hard, up hills a lot, in heavy traffic, etc. |
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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A special tool is required for that Aisin and the fluid is pumped with a special pump, isn't it?
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Not from anything I've read. You can fill from the top but it takes hours. If you fill from the bottom then yes, you need a special pump. One guy on NAM started dropping the pan, putting a quart in the pan, then carefully putting the pan back. Then he'd fill from the top. Said it saved him like 30 minutes. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Not sure if the same options work as for a manual tranny, but these are some options for a fluid pump:
1 - use any shampoo style bottle and attach a hose to where the shampoo normally comes out. Stick the other end of the hose into the hole in the tranny. Pump. 2. If you have an air compressor with a rubber blow nozzle fitting, drill a couple holes into the top of oil bottle. Put a hose into one hole and push all the way to the bottom of the bottle. Push the air nozzle into the other hole. Both of these holes should be as airtight as you can get them. Stick other end of hose in hole in the tranny. Gently add air to the bottle. The pressurized air will displace the fluid, forcing it up the tube and into the tranny. I usually drill a hole in the cap for the hose. I poke a smaller hole into the side of the bottle above the fluid line for the air nozzle.
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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Putting it in the pan first is an interesting idea but makes me wonder if it trickled into the crevices elsewhere in the tranny too. Maybe the pan idea and pouring it in from the top using Kurts shampoo bottle idea.
Backyard mechanics seem to be more creative :-) Thanks! |
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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shasti212
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Vice President Joined: January/18/11 Location: Lynnwood Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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I have a CVT, and noticed some problems happening:
1.5 years ago the power steering went out. Before that happened, my car went into safe mode (after a beautiful display of christmas tree lights) for a little while-long enough to get to the side of the road, but no acceleration power. Then was fine after awhile...then it happened again a couple times while on the way to Kurt's house. Then my power steering started acting up, eventually got a new pump. No issues since then! Now, Saturday, I was driving about 20 mph and suddenly lost acceleration for a few minutes. I put it into SD mode, still no luck for about 30 seconds, then it caught up and was fine. No issues since then. I went into Seattle MINI back when I had the original issue, thinking it was the tranny. The CVT is totally closed up, so without significant proof they could not tear into it because of the expense. Since there was no code, and the issue was very intermittent, they couldn't do anything. Till my power steering shut off awhile driving, and it became a constant issue. We decided the tranny wasn't at fault. I have talked to them about changing the fluid, but again everything is sealed up and they claim the fluid is lifetime, and does not need to be replaced. My acceptance is there is nothing they can do about my transmission until I am broke down on the side of the road. LUCKILY I have a warranty which covers it until next year...which the power steering pump alone has nearly paid for the warranty. I am at 71k miles so I suppose Zippy has had a good run. It's a little unnerving to have to wait until I am stuck to get the thing fixed though :/
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R.I.P.: "Zippy"-Hyper Blue Metallic/White 2005 R50."MINI-ME" plates. Side wing decals.
"Luna" - White Silver 2014 Roadster S. "RDSTER" plates. "Aura" - Space Blue/Silver 2006 Cooper S. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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To my knowledge, the CVT transmissions still use a torque converter.
This lifetime fluid thing bothers me because heat kills transmission fluid and if there is a stuck valve, it (intermittently) can prevent fluid from circulating through the torque converter, causing heat buildup. In worst cases, the converter can get so hot that the metal becomes discolored. I don't know if there is any way to R&R some of the fluid via the dipstick tube, but it is my belief that frequent fluid changes will extend the life of this part. At the very least, the fluid could be inspected to ensure it is still performing well. Maybe this is your chance to upgrade to a Cooper S with the Aisin 6spd, or even better, an immensely reliable manual transmission?? Edited by CORNERS - April/22/13 at 12:37pm |
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shasti212
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Vice President Joined: January/18/11 Location: Lynnwood Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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It's an internal battle. On one hand if the tranny goes out (like I have wanted it to before the warranty runs out), then I could keep Zippy for awhile since all the expensive parts will have been replaced.
On the other hand, if the tranny was still going by the time the warranty was up, that might scare me enough to trade Zippy in next year out of fear. As of now, I want to cry just thinking about giving him up :( even though it would be awesome to have a new MINI S..... Then comes the problem Ryan pointed out to me. If I wait until 2014 for a brand new MINI I will be disappointed. I don't want the Gen 3 with no giant speedo! BAH! I hope my car just tells me what to do..
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R.I.P.: "Zippy"-Hyper Blue Metallic/White 2005 R50."MINI-ME" plates. Side wing decals.
"Luna" - White Silver 2014 Roadster S. "RDSTER" plates. "Aura" - Space Blue/Silver 2006 Cooper S. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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The R53 is affordable, reliable and has a giant speedo... :-)
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SuperCoop
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: October/19/10 Location: Portland Status: Offline Points: 1270 |
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Second vote for an r53. Buying "new" is never worth it, you lose SO much money on new cars. You'll spend a lot less repairing the car you have now (providing there's nothing major wrong), or buying a gently used r53.
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Jason - '05 PS/B Cooper S, most packages, 17%, Brisk silver plugs, IE fixed camber plates & Craven STD's, Powerflex trans/dogbone mount poly inserts, 20mm Whiteline rear sway bar, SprintBooster.
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25percentbritish
MINI Motorer Joined: March/23/13 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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I am currently in process of converting a cvt to a 6 speed. Search for cvt to 6 speed.
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2003 Chili Red R50
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25percentbritish
MINI Motorer Joined: March/23/13 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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http://www.psmini.org/forum/cvt-to-6-speed-conversation_topic9949.html
Here is link in how to section for cvt to 6 speed conversion |
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2003 Chili Red R50
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valvashon
PSMINI Admin Joined: June/15/07 Location: West Seattle Status: Offline Points: 1170 |
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NO! The CVT has a scheduled fluid change! It is between 25k and 30k. Do not believe the lie that the fluid is lifetime. If yours has never been changed now is the time to have it done. If the dealer doesn't want to do it then seek out an independent MINI specialist- there are many options in town right now. RIGHT IN YOUR SERVICE AND WARRANTY BOOK it will state that the CVT fluid must be changed every other service interval/countdown thing. It's there, I've seen it. Almost my bedtime or I'd scan it in and post it for you. When you have this done, specify that they use the Redline CVT fluid, not the Esso your car came with. It is a better product- lasts longer and is better at handling the heat generated inside of a CVT. I have seen MINI CVT's from England rebuilt for around 3k or so shipped. We handy club members could make a weekend project out of it for you in case yours goes T.U. You could do the swap to a manual, but that is more complicated than putting in a rebuilt CVT, IMHO. If you do the correct fluid changes on a CVT they should last, at least that's what I believe. MINI dealers did a disservice to MINI owners by telling them the CVT fluid doesn't need changing. There's lots of beautiful R50's out there going to an early grave because of this. I need to win the lotto and save them! P.S. to Kurt- I don't think there is a torque converter of any sort in a CVT. I've looked at an exploded view- just variable gears and a steel belt (and a pump or two). Bruce |
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...Now mom may drive to the grocery store, But that's not what this car is really for...
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Genie B
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: May/30/08 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2153 |
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I got the same "lifetime" fluid answer from the dealer. But, everything else I see recommends changing the fluid as Bruce said. When I questioned the dealer further, they ended up agreeing that the fluid should have an earlier change, but the FILTER doesn't need changing until 75k. Apparently, changing the filter is quite an operation requiring a lot more disassembly. But, the fluid change is about a 2-hr. job.
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Paul!
MINI Motorer Joined: June/24/12 Location: Marysville, WA Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Shasti212,
Bruce (valvashon) is right! My first MINI was a 2004 Cooper w/ a CVT. (I miss that lil guy! I put 84k miles on it in about a year and a half. The CVT is a strange beast, but once you get used to it, it's amazing!! I even surprised a JCW owner from a stoplight. And that's speaking as a current JCW owner!!! But I digress...) I know I had my fluid changed at least once. I tried to find some of my old paperwork, but it's either long gone, or in a box... somewhere. But! I did find an old inspection sheet for my 2006 MINI. (There's no difference in the 2004 Cooper & 2006 Cooper CVT (or at least none that MINI will admit)) Look here: It clearly says that the CVT fluid should be changed at Inspection 1! If you want, I can give/mail/high-res scan/whatever you this sheet if you want to bring it to the service department. As for your CVT 'slip', if it was the first and only time it happened, it might have been a fluke. I remember my CVT doing weird stuff a couple of times during my ownership, but it never amounted to anything. And I abused the thing! If it happens again though, it may be something more... Here's a document put together a few years ago regarding the MINI CVT: http://motoringfile.com/files/CVT_description.pdf And the CVT forum on MINI2, while not really too active anymore, is a wealth of information: PS - This CVT has a 'torsional damper' vice a torque converter! (Not sure what a torsional damper is, but there ya go!) -Paul Edit: Ok, that scan of the inspection sheet didn't quite work out... standby... Edit 2: I'm too tired to figure out why the resolution is horrible... here's a link! http://www.flickr.com/photos/psbalestrieri/8673446249/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Edited by Paul! - April/22/13 at 9:25pm |
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shasti212
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Vice President Joined: January/18/11 Location: Lynnwood Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Huh, interesting! I thought I had remembered seeing that the fluid is suppose to be changed at least once....then again they also told me I did not need the 50k check up :/
I definitely want to tell them to change my fluid....if the warranty company sees I didn't get it changed and won't cover a new one, I could be in for a world of hurt... I appreciate all the input, and thanks for scanning in that document Paul!
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R.I.P.: "Zippy"-Hyper Blue Metallic/White 2005 R50."MINI-ME" plates. Side wing decals.
"Luna" - White Silver 2014 Roadster S. "RDSTER" plates. "Aura" - Space Blue/Silver 2006 Cooper S. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Some great links there. Indeed, the transmission uses a torsional damper instead of a torque converter. That should contribute somewhat to the life of the assembly, but fluids are everything...
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valvashon
PSMINI Admin Joined: June/15/07 Location: West Seattle Status: Offline Points: 1170 |
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uploads/859/miniservice.pdf
This is a scan from my Service and Warranty booklet. When your MINI was new, the countdown went from 15,500 to zero and showed "oil service". When that was done and reset, it counted down from 15,500 again and showed "inspection". This would be Inspection #1 at approximately 30,000 miles and would include a CVT fluid change. The next time it would be an "oil service" and then an "inspection" and so on; the CVT fluid should be changed at every "inspection". I would strongly encourage you to go to an independent shop that knows what it is doing with regard to the CVT and specify Redline fluid. It doesn't seem as if Seattle MINI wants to do this or think it needs to be done. There's lots of threads on North American Motoring on the CVT, including many people who recommend Redline. Mini2.com also has threads on this. Good luck with it. I hope Zippy doesn't become the project car that Elliott and I will be looking for in a few years. Added: Link to rebuilt MINI CVT's: http://europeantransmissionscom.x-shops.com/shop/product.php?productid=16382&cat=476&page=1 They also have rebuild kits for a couple of hundred dollars, plus how-to videos. What could go wrong?! Bruce Edited by valvashon - April/23/13 at 7:08am |
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...Now mom may drive to the grocery store, But that's not what this car is really for...
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valvashon
PSMINI Admin Joined: June/15/07 Location: West Seattle Status: Offline Points: 1170 |
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Back to our original caller: Found this guy and his shop. Don't know if he's legit or not or still in business. Can you nurse it down to California? I'll drive a convertible down to Cali for you this summer! http://www.minicoopertransmissions.com/ Bruce Edited by valvashon - April/23/13 at 7:17am |
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...Now mom may drive to the grocery store, But that's not what this car is really for...
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shasti212
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Vice President Joined: January/18/11 Location: Lynnwood Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Update: Terry has been researching my car, and somewhere along the way the fluid was changed during the Inspection 1...we just have no idea where it was done. We have been working with Sasha, who said that the fluid DOES need to be changed, contrary to what another service manager told me two years ago.
Monday we are getting my car in to get the fluid changed so that way the warranty company can't claim proper maintenance wasn't done if and when the tranny does go out. We will see if changing the fluid helps get rid of some of that lurching at slow speeds (although I know that is part of a CVT anyway..) So that is where we are at. Thanks to everyone for the help and especially to Bruce and Paul for sending me their records so that I could have proof fluid changes are suppose to happen!
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R.I.P.: "Zippy"-Hyper Blue Metallic/White 2005 R50."MINI-ME" plates. Side wing decals.
"Luna" - White Silver 2014 Roadster S. "RDSTER" plates. "Aura" - Space Blue/Silver 2006 Cooper S. |
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