heel/toe advise please |
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Posted: May/21/14 at 12:42pm |
I could use some heel/toe in a MINI advise. Figured this was a very required skill for properly entering a corner. I sort of have it down in a straight while practicing but my brain locks up from overload while trying to negotiate turn-in, proper brake pressure, and throttle. Any tips appreciated. Thanks
Also, it's amazing how much easier it is to do with Sport on. Just too much play in the drive-by-wire with it off. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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if you understand the concept of heel-toe, the rest is just practice. It is not easy but gets better with practice.
Just keep practicing and eventually it will become more natural. Oh, and not sure what you mean by difficulty doing heel/toe while negotiating turn in, but you should be (ideally) completing the shift before entering the corner. The proper sequence is brake, heel/toe shift, then turn in (and trail brake if you can master that/want to do that), then squeeze on throttle as you pass the apex. I have trouble with heel/toe under heavy braking myself. I get all the heavy braking done early, and then complete the shift toward the end of the braking zone as I am coming up off the brake. |
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Dave's not here
PSMINI Skilled Member PSMINI Member Joined: May/09/10 Location: Federal Way Status: Offline Points: 360 |
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What Kurt said. All your braking and downshifting should be done in a straight line (unless you know how to and are into trail braking) and again, the heel and toe is done at the same time as braking, matching the rpms on the downshift so as not to upset the balance of the car, release your foot from the brake pedal, turn in and hit the gas HARD, whoops, back to my racing days. The idea is that once you take your foot off the brake pedal and transfer it to the gas pedal you should NEVER have to lift again until the next braking area (tracking, not street driving). If you do lift, you messed up the line anyway.
TIP 1 - you can practice this and should practice this every time you are in your car, just remember that when driving slower you don't have to blip the throttle as much TIP 2 - after the blip and the downshift, wait for the tach to begin its decline and then let the clutch out naturally (MINIs are not F1 cars with hydraulic shifters!) No excuse for missing this as the tach is right in front of you! Hope this helps.
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5 race wins, 2 in the rain. 2nd in ICSCC G Production Championship 2005 and 2006. Now I'm just gonna drive the MINI.
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Actually the trail braking thing might be my problem as I've been concentrating on that, or trying to, at the same time. I have a tendency to be totally off the brake before turn-in so have been practicing leaving some pressure on the brakes as I turn-in so when I begin turning the wheel I haven't totally shifted all the weight away from the front. My years of being on bikes is hindering me with this technique.
So it's the blip while still trying to get pressure on the brake at turn-in that's goofing me up I think and I'm probably clutch out way too late. I'll try blip+shift earlier so I can complete that well ahead of thinking about my trail braking. Thanks guys! |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Sounds like you are on the right track.
You should absolutely complete the shift before you start the turn-unless you are some kind of ultra-smooth shift ninja. You run the risk of upsetting the car balance if you don't get the shift just right, which would could cause you to go off line or even worse, if you are not going in a straight line.
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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What Kurt said!
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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Wildfamily
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: March/11/06 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4559 |
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Next topic...Left Foot braking! :)
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'15 F55 Cooper Volcanic Orange
'80 Mini English White |
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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With automatics.... |
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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Punished
PSMINI Driving Member PSMINI Member Joined: May/17/14 Location: 98034 Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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I never got the hang of left foot braking. I have an automatic, how do I learn this awesome skill? Giggle.
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Hello MINI Punisher!
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Probably needs it's own topic but...
For any kind of high speed driving the very first thing you're going to need for left foot braking is a harness of some kind. When I'm on course there is no way I can lift my left foot because it is firmly planted into the floor to keep me from leaving my seat. Until I correct that I have not been able to practice to this at all. But, if you wanted to practice at slower speeds you must first understand that you have a dominant foot just like you have a dominant hand. Ever try to thread a needle or draw a stick figure with your "other" hand? That's the problem you're having with the left foot. It has no training and no dexterity. That can be overcome with practice but not as quickly as your dominant foot which is probably the right one. I can drive two footed but I'm nowhere near as smooth as with 1 foot. Probably best to only use one foot anyway. I can only think of 1 situation where being able to tap the brake gives you an advantage on track. Also, you really don't want to be "that guy" accelerating with the brakes on. I see plenty of people doing this around here. No wonder there are so many brake shops right of the highway. |
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Genie B
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: May/30/08 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2153 |
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I've been a left-foot braker since . . . almost forever! I didn't start out that way, but I learned this skill waaaaaay back in my '69 VW square-back wagon (I loved that car by the way). You had to keep your foot lightly on the throttle at all times or it died, so I got into the habit of using my left foot to brake. I have driven using both feet for so long that it is second nature and now the only way I know how to drive. I'm not sure I could function with the right-foot only.
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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You and my wife, but for different reasons :-)
She always uses the left foot brake method, but she also learned to drive at age 41.... |
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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ipeverywhere
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Treasurer Joined: June/16/10 Location: Sammamish Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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I learned, with almost epicly disastrous consequences, why your left foot should never touch the brake the first time I drove the car.
With learners permit in-hand my father put me in the drivers seat of the Civic Si 5-speed. He explained the concept of the clutch, what it does, etc. and now it was time to put theory into practice. The rest of the story I won't recommend anyone teach anyone using this method... We were in the garage and the first thing we needed to do was back out of said garage. Clutch in, foot on brake, start the car. Put shifter into reverse. I then proceeded to dump the clutch and smash the throttle all John Force style. I don't remember leaving the garage because it was truly a blur. I do remember my father turning white because we stalled a fraction of a second later in the middle of the driveway. When we looked down I had my right foot still on the floor of the throttle and my left foot on the floor of the brake. The only reason we stopped is because I stalled the thing mid-driveway. Otherwise, we would have probably been in the living room of the house across the street. "NEVER LEFT FOOT ON BRAKE!" came out of my father's mouth as he realized I just stalled the thing for the first of many many times. His "never left foot on brake" message was ingrained in me as a beginning driver so that the left foot was always free in a panic stop to get the clutch in. It took me a long time to get over that voice, even in an auto. |
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Rob N
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: August/13/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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I actually laughed out loud. Great story.
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Rob, Vickie and Alice
COOPR-S The question is, "When you turn on your car does it return the favor?" |
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SMOG
PSMINI Member PSMINI Member Joined: April/07/09 Location: Port Orchard Status: Offline Points: 4296 |
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At least you did not hurtle through a garage door, or a wall :-) Sounds like a good harmless learning experience, plus a source of future smiles :-)
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I wish there was a local MINI Dealership, like our Honda, Subaru, Mazada and VW.
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onramp
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: November/19/06 Location: Renton, WA Status: Offline Points: 2321 |
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I learned to dab the brake with the left foot while hard on the accelerator thru a corner to snuff out some understeer. This is a pavement sensitive trick sometimes...
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2006 Hyper Blue JCW
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Nice... I'll have to try that next time I'm out. PS - Any hope of ever upgrading this forum? I did not get any notification about almost an entire page of interesting posts.
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onramp
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: November/19/06 Location: Renton, WA Status: Offline Points: 2321 |
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T2 at Pacific raceways is a great place to practice. If you feel pretty good drifting around the corner, this is the next step. When in the sweet spot of the power band, gently push the gas pedal until the drift straightens our a bit (gentle oversteer), then carefully feather the brake to weight the fronts until the back starts to come around and finish the drift to the exit.
This isn't necessarily smooth, but a bit faster on a big wide corner where you enter hot, lift to get the car pointed in, and then get back on the gas until you are pushing again. Works best just before the apex (you will miss the apex if you don't feather the brakes). The thing to think about is where you are in the power band. If at the peak, this works well as you keep the revs up. Be careful at first. I practiced left footing on the streets until I could get my #13 left foot to not come down too hard. At first, I was like a new driver hammering the brakes. No finesse. But doesn't take long to train your leg. Be careful, and have fun! |
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2006 Hyper Blue JCW
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Thanks Pat. If the MINI was a RWD car it would be that much more perfect.
...I already left foot a lot of the time when driving the automatic Acura MDX so I've started to develop a soft touch.
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