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Wildfamily
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: March/11/06 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4559 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 6:37am |
Kristin. Let me clarify my clarification. The Board agreed to the plan..we knew what the plan was and how it was going to be accomplished. What we didn't know was what the actual link was (nor did it ever get PM'd or e-mailed to us). Hope that is clearer to you now.
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'15 F55 Cooper Volcanic Orange
'80 Mini English White |
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Wildfamily
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: March/11/06 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4559 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 6:52am |
Dave out of concern to your fellow club members would please identify the person or person(s) that e-mailed you the information if you didn't get it from a PM. You don't have to do it publically but you are welcome to e-mail the board members and share it. Thanks.
The certified letter you received didn't refer to PMs because outside of the Privacy/Security issue with PMs our ultimate and on-going request with you has simply been the following (as stated in the certified letter that you receieved and were asked to respond to earlier this week):
1. "the club's domain name registrations must be transferred to the club...this should include psmini.org, psmini.net, and psmini.com"
2. "the account admin, contact, and any agreements with ReachOne (our webhost) must be changed to reflect one of the currently named officers...the software (Web Wiz) is also licensed to the club and must be turned over as well."
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'15 F55 Cooper Volcanic Orange
'80 Mini English White |
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WOODSTOCK
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Ambassador (past President) Joined: February/07/07 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 1610 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 7:23am |
As Roy indicated earlier, the site mentioned in the PM was not available through the search engines (like Google), so it wouldn't have been found that way. The only other means would have been through a 'whois' domain name search and that's not something most people sit down and do unless they are specifically looking for something.
The PM information is stored in the database on the web server and as Roy indicated, it was technically probably accessed from there not through the PM system itself, but we do want people to be aware that PM data has been accessed.
There is one point I want to clear up regarding payment for the domain names. Dave has paid by credit card for the domain names, however the expense for that has been submitted to the club for reimbursement as a club expense in the same way we have handled other club expenses that have been reimbursed. Payments for the web hosting have been paid by check directly to our web host.
Also, the certified letter sent was intended to address only the domain names and web hosting. We did ask for a response by a specified date and if you had been unable to reply, you could have let us know a date when you could reply. Edited by WOODSTOCK - February/12/10 at 7:23am |
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WOODSTOCK: Linda's 2005 LY MCSC with feel good graphics and go fast mods.
CINIMIN: Jack's 2006 Chili Red/White Coupe KEMO-SABE: Our 2011 Bright White/Blk All4 Countryman |
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Kristin
MINI Motorer Joined: November/10/04 Location: Roy, Washington Status: Offline Points: 1670 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 7:52am |
Yes, Linda, that "who is" site is what I used. That Google is a wonderful thing. I Googled domain names and that's the site to which Google pointed me. I hear Bing is good, too, but Google is what I have bookmarked at home.
I am quite sure that you or others were doing the same thing regarding our south sound site.
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kulmini
MINI Motorer Joined: January/27/07 Location: Lacey, WA Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 8:18am |
This problem is between Dave and the PSMini leadership and only they can solve it. I suggest they meet one on one or with a mediator and solve their differences. This impasse is not going to be solved on this forum.
The problem I have with this entire post is that the PSMini leadership felt the need to indicate in their posting that a newly formed club had part in it and was using PSMini membership information obtained dishonestly to their advantage. I am here to tell you that the newly formed club has not and will not use any PSMini membership listings to solicit membership.
The new club has done one mailing to 15 individuals, individuals that are personal friends to one or more or the six founders of the new club. Most of those that were invited live in the south end or had approached one or more of the founders and expressed interest in the newly formed club. Also keep in mind that all six of the founders of the new club are members of PSMini and all have contributed to the success of PSMini over the years.
I ask that the PSMini Leadership recognize that SSMINI in not part of their problems with Dave and leave SSMINI out of it. I also think that the PSMini leadership owes SSMINI an apology for their unfounded statements. We have used due diligence in the formation of SSMINI and will continue to do so.
Don
Edited by kulmini - February/12/10 at 8:21am |
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Roy
MINI Motorer Joined: March/09/08 Location: Kirkland Status: Offline Points: 283 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 12:24pm |
Kristin, you just keep digging yourself in deeper.
As webmaster, I've already been through all of these scenarious with the board, and the evidence is very concrete. It simply wasn't possible to get to the URLs from any other way other than the links in the PM, and the logs files support that. Your explanation simply doesn't hold water. |
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Roy (formerly Shazoom)
2008 CR/B JCW Cabrio |
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GoKart
MINI Motorer Joined: August/30/07 Status: Offline Points: 709 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 12:51pm |
Ya-da Ya-da Ya-da... I asked once nicely for documentation and proof. All we have so far are words and accusations and innuendo. "Show me the money!" Put up or shut up... No, dear, there's no one else... Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. "There are WMD's in Iraq and we know where they are!" I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. I promise I won't ___. "Mission Accomplished" The check's in the mail. "Where's the beef?" Let's see some proof! If what is claimed happened, we the members deserve to see it. If what is loudly proclaimed cannot be proven, then we the members will have some decisions to make. If what was 'done' was done then it's either illegal or it's not. If it's illegal, then prosecute. If it's not, then what? Let us see the proof of these damning allegations. Otherwise you're just Fox 'News'. |
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WOODSTOCK
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Ambassador (past President) Joined: February/07/07 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 1610 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 1:20pm |
How childish and entirely unnecessary. I think Roy has spelled out pretty well how we know the information came from PMs.
The original post was made because we do have evidence that PM information was compromised and that we are powerless at present to prevent further occurrences because of the domain and website ownership issue. This could all be resolved pretty simply if Dave would release those to the current board and we could all move on. That's all we're asking for and what the club deserves.
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WOODSTOCK: Linda's 2005 LY MCSC with feel good graphics and go fast mods.
CINIMIN: Jack's 2006 Chili Red/White Coupe KEMO-SABE: Our 2011 Bright White/Blk All4 Countryman |
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MINIRacer05
MINI Motorer PSMINI Nonmember Joined: August/20/09 Location: Puyallup Status: Offline Points: 33 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 4:15pm |
Please reference the following for steps for further resolution to this issue: ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers) Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy http://www.icann.org/en/dndr/udrp/policy.htm |
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 4:24pm |
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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GoKart
MINI Motorer Joined: August/30/07 Status: Offline Points: 709 |
Posted: February/12/10 at 11:25pm |
Really, Linda? Now you're stooping to name calling? LMAO "Childish" is a bit like the kettle calling the pot black, is it not? Ms. "I'll take the ball I stole and play in my yard with my puppet friends..." You SAY you have information, yet all we have is your word--and we've known what that's worth for a couple years now. Just because someone or a group of someones with a not-so-hidden agenda says something over and over and over we should all just take your/their word for it? If so, you have been watching too much Faux News and Glen Beck. I'm calling your hand. It's time to show your cards... IF you have proof that what you say happened AND you have proof that Dave did it, simply print out the damning evidence and publish it. If none of your puppets knows how to print whatever you're looking at on your screen, I'm happy to tell you--there's a "Prnt Scrn" button on your keyboard. Then you scan it to a pdf file and post it in the members-only area. Until the above is done, any thinking member will ignore this whole rant from the Board and its puppets as a ploy to get what is not legally theirs. I know I will. What ever happened to having FUN? Does anyone else out there still wonder where the fun and camaraderie went and when this Club became all about who has the power? For example, why did they spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Club dollars for a Christmas party that even those who didn't go got to help pay for with their annual dues? Just tired of asking questions... and getting "trust us" as the only answer... |
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Boomer
MINI Motorer PSMINI Nonmember Joined: July/20/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1073 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 12:41am |
This is absolutely insane! It's a car club! Just in case all you people forgot what this club is about, read this post by one of our members: http://www.psmini.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6347
It a example of the reason I joined this club. Good people with a true appreciation for a little car that just brings out emotions in each owner and a place to share those emotions.
Along with the emotions, you have a knowledge base and "cliques" formed based on interests. Concours, drives, rallies, coffees, mods, track, autocross and just getting together for no other reason than then to talk about these great little cars.
If for some reason, you aren't getting what you need or want from the club------MOVE ON!
If you want to start your own club, forum, group or whatever-------HAVE AT IT!
Just don't hold YOUR OLD CLUB AND MEMBERS HOSTAGE because your unhappy with something or someone.
Don't know all the facts, not taking sides, just giving my .02 cents since I really enjoy this site and the people that contribute to furthering my enjoyment of my MINI. Plus, I really want the club to grow and prosper so I'll continue to have a place to ask questions, read tales about other MINI owners or tell stories about my MINI.
Cheers!
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07 MCS, JIC Cross C/O, JCW BBK, Milltek exhaust, RR DP, Helix I/C, RMW tune (208.5 WHP & 238.3 WTQ)Ray's (17 lbs) and Nitto NT01 for track duty
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kulmini
MINI Motorer Joined: January/27/07 Location: Lacey, WA Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 1:23am |
Boomer,
I agree with everything you have said except for SSMINIs involvement. We have nothing to do with this. This is between Dave and the Board and it is they who are going to have to solve it. AND this forum is not the place to do that.
I hate to see all this back and forth, it accomplishes nothing but more hard feelings, why?
PSMini like SSMINI is just a car club and nothing more. Let's move on!
I cannot control what folks post but I ask that everyone restrain themselves and further that the PSMini Board lock this thread.
Don
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Escape Pod
MINI Motorer Joined: July/28/05 Location: Kirkland Status: Offline Points: 740 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 1:49am |
John,
I'm not sure exactly what it is you want to see as proof. The webmaster set up a test to determine whether the board's suspicions were correct, that someone was violating the privacy of PMs. A test site was set up, to which the only pointer was content in a PM. The site was accessed by people who were neither the sender, nor the recipient of the PM.
The webmaster has provided a detailed explanation of why it's so clear that the pages accessed couldn't have been "happened upon", found by search engine, or discovered by means that did not involve a violation of member privacy.
As far as the Christmas party goes, this club has for years had major events that are a net draw on club funds. The XXX car show? The Winged Victory Ralley? I'm sorry if you're not happy with the board's decisions, but we have a board, and they're elected, and they represent the membership as a whole.
We'd all like very much to get beyond all this yelling and return to the joy of being in a MINI club. But I appreciate the board looking out for us by trying to secure the website and the domain name, and trying to protect our privacy. It's unfortunate that they need to do so. I also think they had an obligation to the membership to let us know that they had reason to believe the PMs had been compromised, and that it may become necessary to move the website to a new domain.
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Roy & Beth Morey
Red/Blk JCW Roadster (His) Silver/Red JCW Coupe (Hers) |
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BurnerS
PSMINI Admin PSMINI President Joined: March/17/08 Location: Everett Status: Offline Points: 1493 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 2:18am |
Thank you and I am no longer watching this Thread..
Time for a drive.. !!!!!!!
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New 2013 Clubby S - JCW Engine tune - JCW Brake Kit - JCW Exhaust - JCW Cold Air Intake - Lowered - Racing Wheels
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Hapa Haole
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer) Joined: October/22/06 Location: Graham-Kapowsin Status: Offline Points: 3256 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 2:53am |
I'll 2nd that! It saddens me to see this. I'll be looking forward to the next MINI gathering. Until then...
Happy Motoring,
Brenda
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Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
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Hapa Haole
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer) Joined: October/22/06 Location: Graham-Kapowsin Status: Offline Points: 3256 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 3:16am |
...and why is it that I didn't receive a special little flyer in the mail (USPS) for the invite to SSMINI's coffee meet up at Forza in Tacoma on Saturday, Feb. 20th at 9:30 a.m.? Am I not invited? Do I not belong in the "click" of the south end? Is it "pick and choose" for who are members of Salish Sea MINI? I've had a couple of my PSMINI friends contact me wondering what it was about. I was saddened to hear that I wasn't invited especially since I live in the south end (further south than the invited guest that was mailed the postcard). The email I received states:
Tue, Feb 02, 2010 07:28 PM "I received a special membership invitation from SSMini.org club in the mail today. There having an event on Feb 20th, Saturday, 9:30am at Forza Coffee in Tacoma. Not sure how they got my name and address but I sent my RSVP to attend. Have you ever heard of ssmini.org "Salish Sea Mini Motoring Club"?
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Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
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Steve518
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/08 Location: Kapowsin Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 3:36am |
WOW! Talk about childish. It seems to me there is plenty of evidence, that this issue has been beat to Death! and that most did not learn to think before one speaks, especially if your speaking is in the form of a permanent record.
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Husband of Hapa Haole "Brenda"
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johnf36
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: August/30/07 Location: Ephrata, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 8612 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 4:24am |
It seems to me the purpose of this post was that the Webmaster found a breach in the security of the PM protocal and until the issue is resolved this problem will still exist. Thank you Roy |
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.
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Hapa Haole
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Ambassador (past Events Officer) Joined: October/22/06 Location: Graham-Kapowsin Status: Offline Points: 3256 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 6:44am |
So does that mean that the breach may also extend to personal information such as our home addresses? Can that information be available to the same person or persons who accessed the Private Messages (PMs)?
I have now been contacted by three PSMINI members that have received personal invites to a gathering that is not PSMINI affiliated. They did not know how their address was obtained as they told me they did not share it with anyone outside PSMINI. I have nothing against another MINI club forming, but I do have a problem with our information being shared without our consent.
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Brenda w/LUV2MTR plates- Aug '06 S, Hyper Blue, white top/sport stripes, chrome in/out, all pkgs, English leather, chrono pack, HK stereo, Jan tune, CAI, 15%, H&R coilovers, rear sway bar, control arm
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Roy
MINI Motorer Joined: March/09/08 Location: Kirkland Status: Offline Points: 283 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 9:06am |
The sending of PMs is temporarily disabled for now. I apologize for the inconvenience and hope we can have the aforementioned website-related issues resolved soon.
I wanted people to still have access to their existing PMs, so you can still view and delete PMs, you just won't be able to reply to PMs or send new ones.
Thank you for your patience while we work to secure our club website.
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Roy (formerly Shazoom)
2008 CR/B JCW Cabrio |
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CosmicTraveler
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: September/16/07 Location: Covington Status: Offline Points: 1485 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 11:26am |
Unbelievable.
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Take It Easy ... Buck
'06 MCS JCW CR/CR |
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PSMINI Officers
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Officers Joined: October/27/09 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Posted: February/13/10 at 12:11pm |
We left this thread open in the belief that it was important to allow the members to ask questions and express their views on the information we had an obligation to share. However, we agree that things have gotten off course. We are locking this thread for one week, to provide Dave with time to respond to the certified letter and turn over rights to the club’s website and domain. |
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Linda Grouell (president@psmini.org)
Kurt Hammond(vicepresident@psmini.org) Brenda Fromhold(events@psmini.org) Leanne Powell (secretary@psmini.org) Dave Rinker (treasurer@psmini.org) |
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PSMINI Officers
PSMINI Admin PSMINI Officers Joined: October/27/09 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Posted: February/24/10 at 11:12am |
We promised you an update, so here's where we are: Dave released the 3 main domain names (of the 6 we pay for) and we have transferred them back to the club. We now have the rights to psmini.org, psmini.com, and psmini.net. That's good news and we've thanked him for that. Now the bad news, we again notified Dave that we still needed full access and rights to the ReachOne host site and removal of his rights there so that we can take ownership and secure the club data, etc. We locked this post and indicated that we would allow him an additional week to respond. We sent him a request February 13th and he has not responded or acknowledged our request in any way. Now we will execute Plan B (it's always good to have one of those isn't it?) and will communicate how this will or may impact you separately. For one thing, it will allow us to bring the software to a current status, incorporating several security fixes and turn back on PMs. We will also be following up with those members that received data from the PM that we tracked and address that as a security violation on their part. Something that we can't allow. You'll see some other changes in the near future as well. If, like us, you are tired of having to read all the negative postings that have taken place, you should know that we are also working to address that. It doesn't belong here and everyone agrees to these statements when they register for an ID on our forum:
Thanks for your patience through this and you are welcome to contact any of us with questions or concerns. Our emails are below. Now let's get back to having some fun together! |
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Linda Grouell (president@psmini.org)
Kurt Hammond(vicepresident@psmini.org) Brenda Fromhold(events@psmini.org) Leanne Powell (secretary@psmini.org) Dave Rinker (treasurer@psmini.org) |
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