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Lets talk shocks

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Hot Shot View Drop Down
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    Posted: July/14/11 at 4:47pm
So I was debating going with a set of H&R street perf. coiloversbut am second guessing myself. I'm thinking that since I do not track or auto-x the car that much, I should maybe just go with a set of shocks instead. What has everyone else gone with? I don't really think I need the ability to adjust damping. Every set of shocks that I've ever bought with damping adjust ability, I've set it at install, and never touched it again.
It looks like my choices from Tirerack are the KYB GR-2, Koni Sport of Koni FSD.

Anyone have these shocks?
-James
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobbydanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 4:58pm
 
this is where I bought mine.
they are in monroe, wa
 
koni FSD and KYB are not specificaly designed to work with lowering springs. the koni sports and the Biltein sport are.


Edited by bobbyd - July/14/11 at 5:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CORNERS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 5:18pm
I have the H&R street performance shocks. They do not have adjustable dampening. They are a great set of shocks with a good adjustable height range and a ride comfort level that is better than the Cooper S sport suspension, in my opinion. It is a firm ride that works on the track, but is still comfortable. I think they did a great job hitting a balance between sport and comfort. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CINIMIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 5:19pm
We have Koni FSD's on CINIMN and WOODSTOCK - (both S versions). One of the first mods done to each car and the improvement in "enthusiastic" driving is phenominal - much improved ride and a noticable imnprovenent in handling.  
Jack -

<font color=RED>CINIMIN [/COLOR]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobbydanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 5:22pm
The H&R coilovers are a good choice. Im not entirely convinced that Bilstein isnt making the shocks for H&R. H&R seems to specialize in other products and they are both german companies and the shocks have the same design characteristics.  Thats why I have always favored H&R coilovers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by CINIMIN CINIMIN wrote:

We have Koni FSD's on CINIMN and WOODSTOCK - (both S versions). One of the first mods done to each car and the improvement in "enthusiastic" driving is phenominal - much improved ride and a noticable imnprovenent in handling.  


Jack,
Are you lowered on springs also, or stock springs?
-James
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CINIMIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 5:45pm
Stock Springs - but I think you can use HR (?) lowering springs with the FSD's - CINIMIN has a 22mm 3 way ddjustable rear bar, both are running 16" rims with high performance all season tires.  For me this is an ideal setup for all but very agressive tracking.  We do long distance trips on back roads and the more compliant ride without loosing anything in handling is our prefered setup. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by bobbyd bobbyd wrote:

 
this is where I bought mine.
they are in monroe, wa
 
koni FSD and KYB are not specificaly designed to work with lowering springs. the koni sports and the Biltein sport are.


Bobby,
Why is the front right almost $100 more than the front left?

F4-BE3-A325-H0 $139.75 Notes Sport Shocks
Position Front-Right
F4-VE3-A323-H0 $243.10 Notes Sport Shocks
Position Front-Left

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobbydanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 6:35pm

whoa, good catch james. Im not sure why its that way. a web site error I assume? Im guessing its $245 each for the front left and right, side specific. the rears would be about $135 each and are not side specific.  at the time I bought mine this company was much cheaper than anyone else and they shipped for free which was good for me being in oregon.  I paid $700 for the set. I actualy purchase from this company alot.  This company is Very good about price matching. when I bought all my brake components 4 rotors, front and rear pads and brake lines,  from them they matched other online retailers and saved me alot of trouble not having to purchase everything from seperate places. I saved over $100 off of their regular prices and they made it easy. you might call them to see about the price difference if you are interested. They may even offer you a discount if they dont have to ship them.

Just to explain my partiality to Bilstein, I have been using them for over 20 years. They were a favorite in the VW and BMW community. I have had to warranty a few over the years and they were a breeze to deal with.  for warranty you deal with Bilstein (ThyssenKrupp) directly out of southern california. you call, they ship you a new one and you return the old one and its a done deal.
But to be fair, koni makes a good product and for a street car I would even consider the KYB.  On the KONI website they used to specify that the FSD are an upgrade stock replacement and not recomended for lowered cars though I dont see that information now. there is some talk about it on NAM if you want to look for it.
The aftermarket product game is alot about brand favorites and loyalty. good shops know that and they wont try to pressure you into buying their product/brands  just because its what they sell.
 
PS. Speedware in redmond has had a set of NEW H&R springs on craigs list for months. they keep lowering the price on them. I think they were down to $150 last week. they arent up now but they arent there all the time, I have seen the ad come and go many times in the past few months with the price going down each time, and I bet they still have them.
I had the alta H&R springs and wasnt as happy with them and have since switched back to Hotchkis which I had on my first mini for 150,000 miles.
 
pps. here is a neat deal
 
whew! I talk alot
 
 


Edited by bobbyd - July/14/11 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CINIMIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 7:09pm
Looks like KONI and Eibach have a package deal with FSD and Eibach lowering springs - 1" to 1.5" drop at tiire rack. 
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=Koni&model=FSD+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&group=FSD+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&cat=Kit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 7:20pm
Thanks for all of the info guys. I already have the ALTA/H&R Springs, so I don't really want to buy new springs when they're not needed. The only way I'd get net springs is if I went with coilovers, but I'm really leaning away from coils at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobbydanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/11 at 7:29pm
dude if you have the springs then just upgrade the shocks. I only prefered the Hotchkis springs to the Alta-H&R because the Hotchkis are firmer. you will be happy with whatever you choose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 12:55am
H&R street performance are the best choice if you want to balance the car and adjust the ride height when the primary use  street.

But since you have Alta/ H7R springs your in the same spot Brenda was. The FSD's have been used with drop springs even though I believe it is not suggested.

One of the big problems that I see when it comes to this topic is mix and matching. When you choose a suspension system you should generally stay with one brand and not mix. The problem with drop springs is by the time you get done messing around your at the cost of a set of coilover. The only way to get a quality ride and lower the car properly is coilovers with camber plates and rear adjustable dog bones. The Alta springs have caused failures in the stock dog bones because of the added stress.


If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boomer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 7:27am
James, a buddy just went to the H & R Street Performance c/o on his 11 JCW. He loves them and had the car corner balanced. I drove it and it's sweet.
 
I just went with the H & R C/O on the P-car. Love them! Ride height makes a HUGE differnce in appearence and allows you to corner balance the car. Just had the car at the track & very pleased with the handling. Since I don't plan on tracking this car, adjustment aren't really needed. Wanted a setup that would balance the car better while not shaking my dental filling out. 
 
Perfect choice if you only plan to do a couple track days over the years.
 
Cheers!
07 MCS, JIC Cross C/O, JCW BBK, Milltek exhaust, RR DP, Helix I/C, RMW tune (208.5 WHP & 238.3 WTQ)Ray's (17 lbs) and Nitto NT01 for track duty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanderskog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Boomer Boomer wrote:

James, a buddy just went to the H & R Street Performance c/o on his 11 JCW. He loves them and had the car corner balanced. I drove it and it's sweet.
 
I just went with the H & R C/O on the P-car. Love them! Ride height makes a HUGE differnce in appearence and allows you to corner balance the car. Just had the car at the track & very pleased with the handling. Since I don't plan on tracking this car, adjustment aren't really needed. Wanted a setup that would balance the car better while not shaking my dental filling out. 
 
Perfect choice if you only plan to do a couple track days over the years.
 
Cheers!


Who!?!?!

I'm contemplating this route and would love to talk to them and/or get a ride Wink  The sport springs I have now are horrid.

Todd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boomer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 9:04am

James, name is Ernie. Think screen name is Pez D Spencer. Cantrell's did the install & set up.

Don't think he visits the forum too often but PM him. I'm pretty sure that's his screen name.
I'm heading over to ORP & don't think I'll see him before I go but if I have time I'll ring him up and see if he'll post.
 
Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 10:31am
Go for it Todd .
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pez D. Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 11:42am
Good day all. I did a lot of studying on forums of after market MINI things before I ordered my 2011 JCW. I decided for me coilovers was the way to go, and then ordered with stock suspension. First I added an NM Engineering 22mm sway bar and engine torque arm bushing. Then I went to Cantrells and said I didn't really know but thought either KW V1 or H&R Street Performance seemed like what I probably wanted. I wasn't interested in lowering and wasn't going to track. Colin sells both those brands and of course others. He suggersed I go with the H&Rs. The ride is solid and smoother than the stock suspension. No jarring and no noise. Greg said it kind of felt like the wheel base got longer the way it smooths over bumps. The more spirited I drive the better it feels. With the minimal lowering, camber plates are not necessary. About 1". I couldn't be happier and would definately do it again the same way. You need someone more experianced with suspensions than me to give you a better critque. Sanderskog, Hot Shot, you are welcome to drive it. Almost forgot, I have the M7 Strut Tower Brace and Michelin Pilot all seasons on 17" rims. Alta AccessPort. Again, no noisier than stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 2:17pm
Pez,
You're pretty close to me, so I might take you up on the test drive idea.

I called Koni directly today and asked them about adding the FSD's with lowering springs and they said most definitely NO. There goes that idea....
-James
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanderskog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 2:28pm
No need to drive it but would love a ride.  Is Shoreline the best bet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 4:44pm
Hmmm, I'm kind of flip-flopping between the H&R SP coilovers and the Koni Sports. The Sports are adjustable, but the rear shocks have to come off to adjust them. They're also $300 cheaper though and would get here a week earlier......

Decisions, decisions.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 4:50pm
James the Koni Sport is a good coilover but more for performance driving, not as smooth as the H&Rs on the street.
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobbydanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 6:26pm
The downside of Height Adjsutable Coilovers is that every time you move them you screw up your alignment.
when you lower the car the camber changes and when the camber changes the toe changes.
the same problem occures with adjustabe front camber plates.
Say you get the alignment set for comfortable, stable street driving.
good ride height, modest front camber, and modest toe in.
then you go to the track and adjust the front shocks down. move the camber plates in and wham. you have even more toe in. exactly what you dont want.
This is less of a problem in the rear where lowering the springs increases camber which may be desirable.
so unless you plan to set the car for track driving and leave it that way for at least the season you  should be getting your alignment done every time you go to the track and every time you come home.
Or , if you choose to adjust it yourself, you end up running with some out of wack alignments one way or the other.
so unless your car is going to make you some money or you are going to dedicate it to the track, I believe the best option is to stick with a non height adjustable set up and have it aligned properly for mixed use. or if you go height adjustable just plan to leave it at one setting.
Set the car up for what you want, No point in throwing money away just to keep up with the Joneses.
 
Also keep in mind that comparing the suspension set up on and R56 isnt going to compare to anything you do on an R53.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 7:47pm
Man, you guys are killing me.
I'll likely go with the coilovers if you think they'll ride smoother than the Koni shocks. I doubt I'd be adjusting the coilovers once I get them on there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/11 at 9:50pm
So I was looking around some more tonight and found a couple of other option in the BC Racing and Megan Racing coilovers. Both of those offer a full coilover with camber plates and damping adjustabilty for under $1000. I know Steve had the Megan's on his car. Anyone else had a set of these that would care to comment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/11 at 12:29am
Pat 'Onramp' Both brands are more of a track coilover. I believe Pat related the Megan's to his JCW suspension as being just a little stiffer. And I believe you have to do some trimming on the strut towers so you can adjust the Megan camber plates.

The biggest value to any adjustable coilovers as Greg pointed out is corner balancing.

Not to muddy the water but there is V-Maxx http://www.stratmosphere.com/product/1145/209 but I believe they are not normally sold with camber plate.



OH and I forgot
KSport.



Edited by johnf36 - July/16/11 at 12:35am
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/11 at 12:50am
You could always talk to them James.

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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/11 at 9:01am
I've been reading over on NAM about the Megan racing shocks and trimming the shocks. It's hit and miss with those who have had to trim them and those who have not. I've read both.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot Shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/11 at 9:10am
Oh and I've seen the V-MAXX coilovers as well. The camber plates are not that big of a deal. I doubt I'd mess with the camber that much as I don't plan on slamming the car that low. I don't know if they'd be firm enough for me though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/11 at 10:09am
I wonder if you could get a set of tuoring cup shocks from H&R to go with your springs.

They cutting has to do with making it so you can get the allen wrench to the socket heads when your out so far with the camber..
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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