MINI COOPER , S ENGINE STABILIZER
Printed From: Puget Sound MINI Motoring Club
Category: Technical Discussions
Forum Name: Performance Modifications
Forum Description: Post your performance mods here or ask questions about performance mods.
URL: http://www.psmini.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2820
Printed Date: April/24/24 at 4:54am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: MINI COOPER , S ENGINE STABILIZER
Posted By: johnf36
Subject: MINI COOPER , S ENGINE STABILIZER
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 3:31am
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Has any body tried these. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MINI-COOPER-S-ENGINE-STABILIZER-2005-2006-2007_W0QQitemZ190169076787QQihZ009QQcategoryZ50454QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MINI-COOPER-S-ENGINE-STABILIZ ER-2005-2006-2007_W0QQitemZ190169076787QQihZ009QQcategoryZ50 454QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Replies:
Posted By: KnottyMan
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 5:32am
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Heh - "THIS IS NOT LIKE THOSE CHEAP ENGINE DAMPERS YOU HAVE SEEN BEFORE" Yeah, cause there's NO damping whatsoever. Just looks like one hard bar to me. N - V - H. |
Posted By: phydeaux
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 5:38am
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Yeah, I think I would trust a TX Speed Works damper over that thing. :) Speaking of which, I just received my damper from a NAM sale the other day. Need to install, of course, so no word yet on first impressions or anything. ------------- 
http://www.phydeaux.net/mini_mods.html - Mod list '05 DS/B MCS WA plate "2AAREQD" |
Posted By: kenru
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 7:07am
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I have the Tx Speed Works damper ( http://www.sparerib.net/mini/photos/damper2.jpg - http://www.sparerib.net/mini/photos/damper2.jpg ) and also the Mini Maddness lower mount ( http://www.sparerib.net/mini/photos/gtt/cimg0650.jpg - http://www.sparerib.net/mini/photos/gtt/cimg0650.jpg . The TX Speed damper rattles a little bit at idle but the combination of both of these really snugs things up. It'd be interesting to try the eBay arm. The rubber bushings just might be enough... (plus would take care of the rattle).
------------- One good turn deserves another...and another... http://www.sparerib.net/mini/index.html"> 
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Posted By: YakiMini
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 10:44am
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I'd be concerned about the metal plates. Are they strong enough? Only someone buying it can tell  ------------- MINI-less... If God allows, I will have one again some day. :D |
Posted By: kenru
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 11:09am
I had noticed the same thing. The front mount especially, using only a single point to secure the bracket is just asking to have it bent and fatigued with torque forces... ------------- One good turn deserves another...and another... http://www.sparerib.net/mini/index.html">
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YakiMini wrote:Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 2:10pm
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I was looking at the solid bar concept, it is more like the lower mount. I was thinking it would not a big deal to find new urethane bushings from shock mounts and beef up the plates. I am not sure with the Texas unit if the use air or oil for the dampening. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/05/07 at 10:16pm
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Hi, John: The TSW and Shoe's dampers all use a compressible plug inside the main tube. The more it is compressed, the more damping and NVH. Less compression - less damping and less NVH. That help? Pat ------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/06/07 at 12:06am
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Thanks Pat, Yes that helps, explains the issues. Wonder why one has done compress nitrogen with oil? Still kind of interested in the solid likes the ebay one. I know I have seen that link system on a different automotive application. I have my parts guy looking to see what he can find it would be easy to make proper mount to test if it is already out there. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/06/07 at 2:22am
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Wonder who did it first? http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/ingalls_engineering_stiffy.htm - http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/ingalls_engineering_stif fy.htm Hummmm numbers to work with. John
------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/06/07 at 2:47am
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Talk about high end check this out. http://www.5zigenusa.com/english/products/custom_parts/engine_mount.html - http://www.5zigenusa.com/english/products/custom_parts/engin e_mount.html you can find them here in a Universal app. http://www.nengun.com/5zigen/pro-racer-engine-torque-damper - http://www.nengun.com/5zigen/pro-racer-engine-torque-damper John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/06/07 at 9:34am
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Woohoo! P R I C E Y!! But pretty. Pat
------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/07/07 at 12:46am
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Pat, I think I found something to play with. http://www.seauto.com/product.cgi?group=13960&product=13980 - http://www.seauto.com/product.cgi?group=13960&product=13 980 And these guys carry replacements for the rubber to polyurethane, I also see they have graphite impregnated bushings for sway bars. http://www.suspension.com/part_order.htm - http://www.suspension.com/part_order.htm John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/07/07 at 12:48am
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You might find this interesting http://www.patentdb.info/chiral_quinolone_intermediates/fluid-damped_strut.html - http://www.patentdb.info/chiral_quinolone_intermediates/flui d-damped_strut.html John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/07/07 at 3:26am
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Pat do you know way they are reversing the damper on per 04's http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101424 - http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t =101424 John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: CosmicTraveler
Date Posted: November/07/07 at 9:52am
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John, If you're planning to play with the "solid" type torque strut for a bit, perhaps us future owners of some type of engine dampener should wait for your next creation. Your talents are no longer a secret! I'm curious if anyone has somehow measured engine movement due to bursts of torque. Also curious if the dimension between points of attachment for any type of dampener varies from MINI to MINI. Having no means of adjustment for a solid device could be a difficulty. I guess this comes to mind from discussions on the STB. Given the same STB, some folks install with no clearance issue, while others soak and slam etc ... apparently, some dimensions that are supposed to be the same are not always the same. As for the dampener you found on NAM, now those are serious brackets! Leaning toward the fluid-filled type until we hear from you. ------------- Take It Easy ... Buck
'06 MCS JCW CR/CR |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/07/07 at 10:27am
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Hi, John: Not sure what you mean by reversed. BTW - the
Shoe damper is what I have - installed under the frame arm. Boy,
was THAT a job for Mr. Fat Fingers. Hay-soos! If you can find graphite bushings to fit our sway bars, that would be GREAT - most standard bushings don't start squeaking for about a year, but after that - wow!. Graphite is a natural lubricant. I wonder why more people don't offer them. Cost? High rates of wear? Don't really know. CT - I measured the before and after. I had Jo play throttlemeister, and the engine rocked about an inch and a half before the damper. It now rocks about 1/4 to 1/2 inch depending on how quickly the throttle is depressed and at what engine speed you start at. NVH is noticeable, but doesn't register anymore. I'm medium tight on the elastomeric bushing inside the damper. Pat ------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: CosmicTraveler
Date Posted: November/07/07 at 11:07am
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Wow ... Not only I am impressed that someone measured this (good job), but I would have guessed abount half of that movement. Now I know those light gauge brackets we saw the other day won't last too long. ------------- Take It Easy ... Buck
'06 MCS JCW CR/CR |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/08/07 at 3:06am
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Hummm lets do the easy one first The reversed thing if you look at the installation of the picture which you posted Pat which is what Texas shows. http://www.sparerib.net/mini/photos/damper2.jpg - http://www.sparerib.net/mini/photos/damper2.jpg The adjustment nut is to the rear and the mounting system is to the rear. In the NAM posting that I put up the unit is forward and the adjustment aft http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101424 - http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t =101424 Not to over complicate this, but based on how they are mounted it changes the rotational torque forces and how they are applied to the unit and how it functions, I was just wondering why the difference. 2. I know the ID of the different swaybars, I just don't know the different mount dimensions, but I am sure I can find them or something that would work for the stock S. Graphite would be a nice replacement for rubber. Ct, I like the Hydraulic concept these guys sell to Mercedes. http://www.stabilus.com/frameset.asp?sprache=englisch&headline=Products&bereich=produkte&subsite=menue.asp - http://www.stabilus.com/frameset.asp?sprache=englisch&he adline=Products&bereich=produkte&subsite=menue.asp Only thing is with fluids when you blow the seals your done, still thinking that one over. I am leaning toward the dog bone style with urethane inserts, you can control the stiffness with the density of the material. The Drift racers seem to have really played with this stuff since they are hammering the $##@#@ out of there cars. I think one can get something better then where the manufacture left off and the hard core racers are. The 1 1/2 is cool thanks, thats just engine wrap/torque. So for those that go to the track, under hard down shifting, acceleration and cornering it could easily be double that, which explains mount failure. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: phydeaux
Date Posted: November/08/07 at 3:12am
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Probably explains why my hydraulic mount failed not long after 9/11 track day. Time to install my TSW damper. ;)
-------------
http://www.phydeaux.net/mini_mods.html - Mod list '05 DS/B MCS WA plate "2AAREQD" |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/08/07 at 3:28am
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You Know Eric Toyota did the same thing with there 92-95 Camery's. They used an oil filled mount but they installed a Torque strut arm on the engines. Does anyone know if the GP's come with a torque strut? John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/08/07 at 3:53am
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BTW, I think I went a little over kill, back to the drawing board, Does Mr Cupcake need a torque strut
------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/10/07 at 12:25am
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------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/10/07 at 12:37am
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Once again - WOW! Pat
------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/10/07 at 1:09am
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Thanks Pat, I might be a little light on the urethane, and I still need to install the bolt inserts an finish the mounts but the distance is right from eye to eye. I have a denser set of bushings but I think it my be to stiff for everyday use. May be a person can just change rods when they go to the track. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/10/07 at 10:41am
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I'm in for one of these if you need a tester... Pat ------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: Docroth
Date Posted: November/10/07 at 3:19pm
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Me too Me too Then sign me up to buy the finishd deal. Nice work for sure ------------- New Proud Owner of the 2005 Nuff MCSVolk CE28|TSW Springs| Parcel Shelf|Whalen |Aero Grill |Blackbelt|Uber Ant |Sirius Stiletto |Auto-up Circuit|Painted Trim|MTH Tuner File|Alta 15% Pulley |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/11/07 at 12:05am
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Okay I have a few questions as I am playing with mounts. I noticed in a Moss Mini picture something interesting on the passenger tower what looked like a torque arm and mount, Kind of hard to see.
So I went looking at parts Item number 8 on this page. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=RE33&mospid=48021&btnr=22_0066&hg=22&fg=05 - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=RE33&mospi d=48021&btnr=22_0066&hg=22&fg=05 Okay so where and why did we loose our torque mount? Any thoughts or answers? http://www.mossmini.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=33839 -------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/11/07 at 12:09am
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------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/11/07 at 12:24am
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Okay I found that mount and a cool Mini parts supplier, 48 bucks, down side My Russian is not that good http://www.avtodom.ru/services/accessory/?det=h - http://www.avtodom.ru/services/accessory/?det=h It is there down the page 3 in stock. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/11/07 at 12:30am
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You guys are killing me I don't even have this one on the car yet. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/11/07 at 12:59am
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Could be wrong but it looks like after 03 they decided to drop this set up and use the mounting system that they were using on the automatic transmission.I am sure someone can shed some light on this. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 2:35am
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------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: kenru
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 3:23am
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Looks good, driving impression?
------------- One good turn deserves another...and another... http://www.sparerib.net/mini/index.html">
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Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 3:31am
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I will give you one as soon as I finish the mounting, I have to do the finial bolt up tomorrow. I thought I was a little on the soft side but I am beginning to wonder , kind of wish I knew where TSW was on there compression rate. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 3:40am
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Sorry Ken ,Thanks, If it works I am trying to put something together for you and Pat to test. Just worried it is to stiff, or it will bow out. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: kenru
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 8:02am
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John, Your dampener is very much in keeping with the traditional Mini design. in the picture below, you can see a similar arm on the left side if the engine. (Please excuse the dirt, rust etc.)  ------------- One good turn deserves another...and another... http://www.sparerib.net/mini/index.html">
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Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 10:18am
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John - ya gotta quit polishing stuff. You're killing me. Gorgeous. Pat
------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 12:20pm
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Ah, man, Ken - the memories. Great picture, worthy of
framing... Unscrewing the plunger in the dashpot. Vacuum
advance. Tin can brake fluid (and clutch) reservoir.
Springs, cables and points. Boy, am I glad we've made
progress. But then, maybe not. You sure you wanna do the
Honda thing? I promise, people won't run over an old mini.
But then, progress... Maybe a leather bra would help! Pat ------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: CosmicTraveler
Date Posted: November/14/07 at 1:14pm
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John ... Please warn us when you're about to post photo's of a finished product. Some might want to grab their shades and a slobber towel. ------------- Take It Easy ... Buck
'06 MCS JCW CR/CR |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/16/07 at 1:23am
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------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: KnottyMan
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 12:00am
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And why are you not just fabbing/selling MINI mods full time again? Been said before but outstanding looking work! |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 12:13am
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Thanks, good question,I am working on trying to at least put something together part time. It my sound funny but I enjoy making these things it is not work to me. Biggest problem I seem to have is I am not always happy with my work and is goes in to the garbage. My wife has words for that, but this is a family channel. Pat to bad the valve cover is not aluminum I could polish it then John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: onramp
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 1:08am
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OOHHHH! Aluminum valve covers! Can you cast parts? Woohoo!
------------- 2006 Hyper Blue JCW |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 1:29am
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Pat, I have done some small sand cast things in brass,lead and babbitt. Now you did it, it my not be that hard to do it in a weldment out of aluminum or ss. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 1:34am
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Ken, that is cool, I really was not looking at the old Mini's. Makes you wonder though why they dropped the part. I like your air cleaner, that is classic. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: Cupcake
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 4:39am
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John, if you want to do some e-commerce, let Mr. Cupcake know. We can get you up and running in now time. ------------- '03 AB/W MC, bonnet stripes, brake light pulsar, Alta stubby antenna, Union Jack tire valve caps, Waylin shift knob, first ticket Feb '08, second March '08, WVIII quitter. "CUPC4KE" |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/17/07 at 4:55am
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Thank you, I will definitely keep that in mind when I get that far. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: Dave
Date Posted: November/19/07 at 2:02pm
| No promises of stability - but you should still plan on coming to the PSMINI Holiday Party |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: November/20/07 at 3:16am
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Okay, I told you I can't leave things alone, I pulled the connecting rod off yesterday and reworked it. Why I was not happy with it. I am not sure how the Texas or Shoe unit feels on start up, but I would guess because it is a loaded cylinder you get a shutter when you fire the engine. Well I didn't like the way it felt when things were started. So I reduced the compression ratio of the urethane in the rod ends to soften the movement on start up. In the Texas and Shoe units they are under compression and there is really not much room for adjustment with out loosing your setting because it is captive. ETB's on earlier models use a open vibration damping system which once they reach there limit they blow. What is different about mine, with the urethane bushings as they compress they build resisting force with side plates you can control grow of the bushing and hence resisting pressure. So whats all this mean if I open things up it allows for that start up shock but maintains the performance under load. I seem to like the way it feels for now. Any Questions? John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |
Posted By: johnf36
Date Posted: December/04/07 at 8:53pm
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Okay I finished a set of 3 arms and now I will get the mounts done. John ------------- If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. |