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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Security Warning
    Posted: February/11/10 at 5:14pm

PSMINI Forum & Paid Members:

 

It’s unfortunate that we have to post this type of message to you, but you all need to be aware of a few issues concerning this website and potential changes that will impact all of you.

 

First and most importantly, it appears that Private Messages are being read by a former board member and shared with others beyond the intended recipients.  Unfortunately, this has apparently been going on for some time.  We were aware of other internal board communications being shared inappropriately, but the reading and sharing of messages clearly intended as private communications is much more concerning.  This is not only a serious breach of security and confidentiality, but also completely unethical.  For this reason, we will be temporarily disabling the PM functionality and storing membership data on another server in order to protect the privacy of our members and forum users while we continue to work toward a permanent secure solution.

 

Second, part of the circumstances that allowed this to happen is tied to club assets that have not been turned over to the new board.  In 2009 when Dave Royce left office, he continued to maintain control over the club’s registered domain names (psmini.org, psmini.com, and psmini.net) as well as the club’s web hosting service.  Although Dave no longer has any official role in the club, he has refused multiple requests from the new board and the webmaster to transfer the domain names back to the club and change the account with the web host.

 

In past exchanges with the board, Dave has asserted that the psmini.org domain name belongs to him and that the board pays him and his private company, Crystal Clear Consulting, to run the website.  However, the board has always paid the domain name renewal and the web hosting fees directly to the service providers.  Our research into the domain name history has shown that the psmini.org domain was originally registered by Kirk Moore, another of the club’s founders.  It was transferred to Dave later when he was club president, and he was listed as the contact name, but the club remained the organization named as registrant.  That remained the case until after the election of the 2009 board and before the transition meeting in March of 2009, when, in violation of his fiduciary duty as president of a non-profit organization, Dave took it upon himself to change the club’s registrant organization names to the private ownership of Dave Royce and his company, Crystal Clear Consulting. 

 

It is clear that the psmini.org domain name was created for the club and should remain with the club.  Furthermore, your membership dollars go to renewing and maintaining this domain name.  So, while we don’t want to change the website URL address, we also feel it is unwise to continue paying for and using a domain name we no longer have any control over.  This is especially true in light of the fact that Dave is part of a group involved in forming a new MINI club, and may no longer have the best interests of our club at heart.  While we have no problem with the formation of the new club, we believe that member name and address info from PSMINI is being used without permission to invite potential members to join the new club.  We consider our member information private and not to be shared without prior approval.

 

In addition to the domain name, Dave also retains administrative rights with the hosting company for the club website and forum, even though he has no role in, or responsibilities to the club.  As such, he has intervened in contacts between the board and our service contact at the web hosting company, ReachOne.  He prevented us from pursuing an investigation of the web site breach last fall where someone had modified one of our links to point to an incorrect location.  With the exception of uploading files and the occasional web page change, we are unable to do anything to improve or secure our web environment without Dave’s authorization and his continued access.  The forum software has not received security updates in some time and it didn’t appear that access passwords had ever been changed despite changes in people and responsibilities. 

 

We believe that you will agree with us that this is not a workable arrangement for the club as a whole.  Ultimately, we feel that this website and the psmini.org domain name should belong to you, the membership, and be managed by the board you elected, with legal responsibilities to do so as officers of a non-profit organization.  Currently, we do not have the means to ensure the availability, security or integrity of the club’s website and that has to change.  We plan to continue to pursue our request for turnover of the psmini.org, psmini.com, and psmini.net domain names, as well as the appropriate access to our web host services, but if we are unable to succeed in doing so, we will be forced to move the site and change the domain name in order to provide you with a secure, maintainable environment.  We will continue to update you as things change.

 

Please contact us if you have additional questions.

 



Edited by PSMINI Officers - February/12/10 at 12:34am
Linda Grouell (president@psmini.org)

Kurt Hammond(vicepresident@psmini.org)

Brenda Fromhold(events@psmini.org)

Leanne Powell (secretary@psmini.org)

Dave Rinker (treasurer@psmini.org)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 12:34am

This is a nice attack on me in the typical Linda format.  Linda has had it out for me since she resigned as secretary prior to the board firing her for spending club funds without board knowledge.  Nothing was posted as it was a private matter betrween the board and Linda. 

Now I have never read any private messages other than my own.  This is slander and again an attack by Linda.  Also, NOTHING from PSMINI was provided to the new group forming. 
 
As far as the domain names go, my company does own them and they have been paid for with my compnay credit card.  PSMINI has paid a use fee to my compnay to cover the costs of maintaining the domain.  This matter is a discussion that needs to be held with board and me, not placing an attack on the forum,  but that is the LINDA way......
 
Linda expects everything to be done her terms and if she wants to attack someone and make herself look better she lies and goes forwards.  Linda should never have run for President and I should have provided the membership the facts of her resignation so everyone that thinks Linda is greatest person would see the true side.  She has all of you fooled.
 
I just want everyone to remember that this is just a car club, and this car club was founded by me and three other people for the enjoyment of our MINIs and to have friendship.  It is no longer proceeding in that direction.


Edited by MINI-Rolls - February/12/10 at 1:34am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 1:04am
This is not a "Linda" thing. This is a unified statement contributed by the entire 2010 Board based on actual fact finding and substantiated information over the last 2 years.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 1:15am
For many of us, this is just a car club.  But when you incorporate a nonprofit and collect membership fees, along with that come fiduciary duties and recordkeeping obligations.   Also, the membership has come to expect access to this website and the forums, access which is currently in question - something the membership has a right to know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 1:23am
As webmaster I just want to point out that there is no reason for Dave to own the club's domain name.  There is no work necessary to maintain a domain name.  Anyone can register a domain name in 10 minutes, and then you just renew it online every year or two.  Paying a use fee for a domain name is just silly, and there is no evidence for this supposed agreement.  Dave is essentially claiming that the club rents the domain name from him and yet there are no contracts and no logical reason why the club would enter into such an agreement.  Even if there were, it would be a clear conflict of interest for the president of the club to rent a domain name from his own private company.  What does Dave get out of controlling the psmini.org domain name?  Does he want money for it?
 
I think this is clearly a case of "founder's syndrome".  Dave can't let go of the club he started and wants to exert control over it even after he has left office.
 
Dave, you should do the right thing and hand control of the domain name over to club and elected board, even if you disagree with them.  You can run for office next year if it means that much to you.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 1:35am
I see no lies in the Board's message.  I know bringing this out publicly was a hard decision, but the facts are the facts.
 
This was a notification e-mail that was REQUIRED for the benefit of the general membership and registered users of the forums.  We need and have a right to know if there have been behind the scene attacks (such as re-routing a link) or that someone is reading PMs which are PRIVATE Messages.
 
I do agree these matters should always be addressed one on one.  However, when requests for information are ignored or flat out refused, additional measures need to be taken.
 
Personally, I want to thank the Board for handling this in a professional manner.  I know your jobs are not easy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 1:43am

This has nothing to do with your so called 'founders syndrome'.  And it is not a conflict of interest as when PSMINI started it did not have any funds to maintain the domain or the website and that was done by Kirk and I.  

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 1:54am

Since I am part of the Board and was involved with post, I want to make it very clear that I don't endorse anything without proper proof.    What is written is absolutely factual.   I personally am hoping that Dave does not continue to push the subject as it would definitely not be in his best interest for the proof and facts to be laid out on the table.    

The need for a public post comes from MANY attempts to work with Dave and do what is right for the club.    He has been nothing short of nasty and hateful to anyone who has tried to contact him in this situation.  
 
This is not Dave's club.   It is the membership's club.   We deserve the right to send Private Messages without the fear that they are being read.  
 
Dave can try and spin the truth all he wants, but the facts will remain the same. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 2:00am

Mr. Rolls. Slander is a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report. There is nothing false, malicious or defamatory in what has been presented. It is all based on fact and actual evidence and records that the Board has researched and has in it's possession. You, unfortunately don't have that. So you my friend are being "Slanderous".You were given every opportunity to help out and do the right thing for the club. You chose to do the opposite.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 2:17am
Dave, if you haven't been reading anyone's PMs, then how do you explain that you found and browsed specific images I uploaded to a prototype site I setup for the club.  No one knew about those specific images except me and Linda, when I sent her a link to them in a PM.
 
Specifically, on Feb 4, you accessed the following image:
psminis.org/content/psminilogo.jpg
 
But there are no links to this image and the search engines have no way of knowing about it.
 
You also accessed several other images and web pages back-to-back as specifically listed in the PM, and only the files listed in the PM.
 
When I saw the web logs on the prototype site it was very obvious what had happened, and so I immediately alerted the board that the security of the PM system was compromised.
 
Actually, the PM system wasn't compromised.  You, Dave, have admin access to the website and can therefore do whatever you want.  However, I support the board in notifying the members that the PM system was compromised.
 
I think it goes without saying, Dave, that since you are no longer on the board and have no official responsibilities, you should get your hands out of the website and turn administrator rights over to the elected board.  You don't need to be involved in the management of the website.  You wouldn't be in this mess if you had transferred control over to the new board like you should have last year.
 
You need to wake up to the fact that you are now just a member like the rest of us.  If you want to control things then you can run for office like everyone else.  In the meantime, you need distangle yourself from the club's website.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 2:31am
As a current member of PSMINI I request that if you have proof, then publish it... ALL of it.  Otherwise we shall assume there is none.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 2:37am
"You also accessed several other images and web pages back-to-back as specifically listed in the PM, and only the files listed in the PM."
 
I was sent these links in email and told I should check them out........


Edited by MINI-Rolls - February/12/10 at 2:38am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 2:47am
Email from whom?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 2:52am

Exactly!!  The only way to gain this information was from a PM, so if you didn't read this private message, who did?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 3:24am
As justamember, not involved behing the scenes, I would like to know one thing. 
 
Personalities, past history, grudges, vengence, etc. etc. aside . . .
 
What is the purpose and/or intent of what looks like the club domain name being held hostage from the members?  Is it a loss of personal revenue?  Is it that a new club wants to use the name?  Is it unhappiness with the way the club has evolved beig played out? Is it spite and vengence?
 
At this point, it seems that not relinquishing the name, and possibly interferring with the website, is hurting the membership at large - people that do indeed just want to have fun with their MINIs.  I don't understand why anyone would want to do that. 
 
I respect and thank the people that founded this fun club, but I'm really haivng difficulty understanding the motivation here. It seems that taking the high road would earn the respect of a lot of club members.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 3:50am
Originally posted by MiniCharley MiniCharley wrote:

Exactly!!  The only way to gain this information was from a PM, so if you didn't read this private message, who did?

 
So are you saying that no one could possibly have emailed Dave (or anyone else) the same information?  That it could only be found in a PM?  Just wondering ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 4:25am

That's what I read Roy's post to say..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 4:29am
Was there an expectation of privacy established for the pages and images mentioned?  A password that one must enter before access is granted?  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 4:31am

This is ridiculous... Dave I do not know you well but in my humble opinion.. once you gave up the position on the Board, you should have given up the Admin and the Domain rights as well.. if you are not going to give it up.. please let the board know so that the club can move on...nobody is gaining anything by the back and forth rhetoric going on today...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 4:44am
Originally posted by Kristin Kristin wrote:

Originally posted by MiniCharley MiniCharley wrote:

Exactly!!  The only way to gain this information was from a PM, so if you didn't read this private message, who did?

 
So are you saying that no one could possibly have emailed Dave (or anyone else) the same information?  That it could only be found in a PM?  Just wondering ...
 
That's correct.  The links I sent Linda were sent by PM only.  I did not email them to anyone, and Linda didn't email them to anyone except herself.  It seems very unlikely that Linda's email was compromised by someone who is in the club, knows Dave, and that Dave never questioned where any of this information was coming from.
 
The PM with the web links is not an isolated event.  It is simply the incident for each there is substantial evidence of a problem.  The board has had suspicions for some time, but could not substantiate them until just recently.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 4:50am
Question, this was locked last night, was it opened to allow response?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 4:56am
hopefully cause I did! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 5:17am
Yes, John. The Board agreed that the post should be unlocked to allow feedback from the membership since this impacts everyone in the club.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 5:35am
Originally posted by Roy Roy wrote:

Originally posted by Kristin Kristin wrote:

Originally posted by MiniCharley MiniCharley wrote:

Exactly!!  The only way to gain this information was from a PM, so if you didn't read this private message, who did?

 
So are you saying that no one could possibly have emailed Dave (or anyone else) the same information?  That it could only be found in a PM?  Just wondering ...
 
That's correct.  The links I sent Linda were sent by PM only.  I did not email them to anyone, and Linda didn't email them to anyone except herself.  It seems very unlikely that Linda's email was compromised by someone who is in the club, knows Dave, and that Dave never questioned where any of this information was coming from.
 
The PM with the web links is not an isolated event.  It is simply the incident for each there is substantial evidence of a problem.  The board has had suspicions for some time, but could not substantiate them until just recently.
 
 
 
Roy,
 
Am I understanding correctly that the links you sent Linda via PM were not shared with any other board members?  You and Linda were the only ones who knew about them?  Just wondering ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 5:37am
Originally posted by Roy Roy wrote:

Originally posted by Kristin Kristin wrote:

Originally posted by MiniCharley MiniCharley wrote:

Exactly!!  The only way to gain this information was from a PM, so if you didn't read this private message, who did?

 
So are you saying that no one could possibly have emailed Dave (or anyone else) the same information?  That it could only be found in a PM?  Just wondering ...
 
That's correct.  The links I sent Linda were sent by PM only.  I did not email them to anyone, and Linda didn't email them to anyone except herself.  It seems very unlikely that Linda's email was compromised by someone who is in the club, knows Dave, and that Dave never questioned where any of this information was coming from.
 
The PM with the web links is not an isolated event.  It is simply the incident for each there is substantial evidence of a problem.  The board has had suspicions for some time, but could not substantiate them until just recently.
 
 
 
Roy,
So are you saying that the links were only sent by you to Linda via PM and not shared with any other board member?  The other board members did not know about these links?  If you had suspicions that the site was being compromised and this was sensitive material, would it not have been a better practice to send an email?
Not trying to cause trouble here, just trying to understand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 5:39am
Thanks Martin.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 6:08am
Kristin,
 
It is absolutely correct that none of the other board members (other than Linda to whom he sent the PM) new about the link or it's contents. We only agreed to the plan so Roy could see if he could find out who was reading Private Messages. The point was to eliminate that exact possibility and pinpoint the source. The source was revealed.


Edited by Wildfamily - February/12/10 at 6:09am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 6:23am

Thank you Martin, though I think it's funny you "agreed to the plan" if you didn't know what it was, but anyway ...

I'm not sure what link you're talking about, but if it's www.psminis.org, I found that a week or two ago just by running domain names to see what else was out there.  No stolen emails or PMs or anything else.  Just me googling on a rainy evening.  I'm not even a "computer" person.  If I could find it on my own and I'm not overly skilled in computer things, I'm guessing anyone could find it.  This is not unlike what I'm sure you have done looking for our new south sound site.  My understanding is that it's all in the public domain. 
 
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your conclusion - just pointing out that a PM isn't the only way to obtain information.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 6:25am
Yes, but the pages and files that were accessed aren't accessible or linked from the page you found using a search engine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/10 at 6:33am
Well it was not me reading the pm. I was cc'ed on an email with the links and I clicked them and went to the site.  I admit to that but I did not and have not read PM's.  I then deleted the email as it did not interest me and figured if the club purchased a new domain name and wanted to build a CMS, which Roy has said he wanted, then so be it.  This is first day I have heard anything about this.  I got a letter from the board regarding the domain names which I have not been able to answer since I am out of state on family medical emergency.  It made no reference to me reading PMs or accessing another site and you think they would mention that. 
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